United News

[Cosmo]

In a step that ultimately may (or may not) bring United's feed arrangements at its IAD hub into clearer focus, it was announced this afternoon that United and Mesa had reached a conditional agreement on the operation of those services currently provided to United by ACA. This agreement apparently contains compensation rates that both United and Mesa can live with. The agreement is contingent upon bankruptcy court approval and, obviously, Mesa successfully acquiring ACA.

Here's the United press release.

 

[46Driver]

Lets hope that ACA can prevent UAL from stealing OUR Dulles gates and stop MESA from stealing OUR airplanes. If you want MESA as your IAD feed, that's fine - go your own way and leave us in peace.

 

[Busdrvr]

Lets hope that ACA can prevent UAL from stealing OUR Dulles gates and stop MESA from stealing OUR airplanes. If you want MESA as your IAD feed, that's fine - go your own way and leave us in peace.

You wouldn't EXIST at Dulles if not for UAL. if MESA buys you, at least you'll have a job in a year. Yeah the "we'll fly RJ and a few NB's" plan works really well... Just ask Midway. And they weren't even competing against U, UAL, and SWA who all have hubs in the IAD metro area. You are DREAMING. It would be one thing if ACA actually provided a quality product. But quite frankly, they are the WORST of all the UAX carriers. Definately a winning combination, high costs and PP service. UAL OWNES IAD, you serve UAL, not the other way around. Delusions of grandure....

 

[46Driver]

UAL wouldn't exist if it wasn't for a government bailout...... And if MESA buys us, I'll find a job outside of aviation while continuing with my military reserve flying.

As for the Midway comparison, hubbing out of Raleigh is one thing, Dulles completely another. In addition, AirTran is using CRJ's, JetBlue is going with a smaller aircraft, and even Southwest is considering the idea. Finally, small cities are now screaming for LCC service and setting up travel banks to cover the risks inherent in starting service to new cities.

Actually, we lease the gates at Dulles until 2014. Also, we are not asking UAL to "serve" us - but we don't want to "serve" you anymore either. If we are so bad, you ought to be grateful to be rid of us.

As for the quality product thing, didn't UAL drop MESA once already? Just what UAL needs, a company so bad that they don't pay their pilots for maintenance cancellations - how safe is that?

 

[Busdrvr]

"And if MESA buys us, I'll find a job outside of aviation while continuing with my military reserve flying."

Then either way, you're out of a job in a year or so. I'd start the job search now. What do you fly in the reserves that has you peaked out at ACA? Helo's? 152's?

The employees are VERY happy to be dumping ACA.

Small cities crying for an LCC? That's nice, BUT YOU ARE NOT LOW COST. the ONLY reason the miserable cockroaches (RJ's) are even remotely profitable is because they FEED high yield routes. YOU HAVE NONE. I doubt we'll be hearing 'Blue ridge' on the NATS. Do you REALLY think you can even REMOTELY compete against a real jet? Do you think you can compete against a mainline subsidized RJ with pax connecting to Europe or the pacific? Thanks for the good laugh tonight. BTW, the SHAREHOLDERS own ACA (and the leases on the jets), you do not. They don't want to lose their money. they will back whoever has a "real" plan

BTW, what government bailout of UAL are you refering to? They must be keeping that one a secret.

 

[iflyjetz]

If we are so bad, you ought to be grateful to be rid of us.

Based on high rev passenger comments off of flyertalk.com's board, UAL's pax are ecstatic to be rid of ACA.

Best of luck on the LCC thing.

 

[Cosmo]

It looks like Mesa is increasing the pressure on ACA. This afternoon, Mesa issued this press release that included a copy of a letter that Ornstein sent to ACA's BOD, in essence telling them not to acquire mainline-type equipment until ACA's shareholders have had a chance to vote on that carrier's future direction. This whole saga is getting more interesting with each passing day.

 

[Cosmo]

And here's ACA's response to Mesa, contained in this press release issued this evening.

 

[Borescope]

they will back whoever has a "real" plan

And who might that be. UAL hasn't got a "Real" plan either. At least not Yet. Time will tell I guess.

 

[ZMAN777]

Busdrvr,

Don't waste your time trying to explain the obvious to those at ACA who don't want to be confused with the facts. Just allow them to sleep tight at night until the furlough notice arrives in the mail the next day. No sense to have them going about life all tensed up!

Cheers,
Z B)

 

[46Driver]

Greetings! What great holiday spirit! Thank you Zman and BusDriver for wishing furloughs on all of us at ACA. Now that's the love. Notice I don't say the same about United, especially since 3 of my squadronmates are furloughed from UAL.

To answer your questions, yes I flew helos in the fleet and still in the reserves. Considering that I started ACA in 2001, it proved to be a wise move by leaving me with multiple options. So the long answer is that I have not been able to move on because only a few companies are hiring while many (including mine and yours) are furloughing.

I am also curious to know why you call the RJ a "miserable cockroach"? Is it the poor avionics? Is it the engines? Is it the performance? Or is it just because it is a smaller jet? If it is the last reason, does a 747 pilot call an MD-80 a cockroach? Does a C-17 pilot call an F-16 a cockroach? Enquiring minds want to know!

Also, you say you can't wait to be rid of ACA. Yet, you won't let us go. Well, which is it? Or do you want us all to be a part of MESA - a company UAL has already dropped once before for poor performance.... You think you have problems now, wait until Johnny O has all of the feed under 1 command and the gates at IAD.....

I realize the shareholders don't want to lose their money (like they did at UAL - what was your stock $99 or something and now its worth???) Also, the shareholders do control us. Who controls UAL - the creditors? However, we do have a business plan and are trying to execute it - a LCC targeting communities too small for the 737's and Airbusses of our competitors. As for the Dulles traffic, the study was presented that showed that 60% of the ACA traffic was connecting to another ACA plane at Dulles, another 20% was in and outs to Dulles. Add in the fact that over half of the autos at Baltimore were driving up from Virginia and there is great potential for that market. At least its a plan, as for TED....

In summary:
UAL is in Chapter 11
ACA has the lease to the gates at Dulles and its RJ's
ACA (management and its employees) would rather try and go it alone rather than have a job under MESA.

UAL chose MESA. You are welcomed to them - we are not stopping you. You do not own us. You do not own our gates. And to have a UAL pilot making $200k a year tell me to become part of MESA and take a pay cut down to food stamp level because "I should serve United" is revolting. Judging by your monikers and what I read on the ALPA board, I assume you are an Air Force Reserve pilot. Next time we are in the desert, feel free to come by a reserve helicopter squadron and re-iterate those ideas that regional pilots should take pay cuts and you deserve every penny of your $200k.

Semper Fi.

 

[Busdrvr]

46 guy (sorry I was thinking "146"),
Consider this.
What color are your jets? Do you market yourself as ACA or as "united express"
Whats your unit cost? I'll give you a hint 16.6 cents per ASM for the first six months of 2003. How much of that was spent on marketing? To sell tickets? I know, you'll lower your cost by increasing "efficiency", ie, you'll fly the jets and crews more. Of course equipment costs were a VERY small percent of total costs. But hey, your operational performance was STELLAR at the lower rates
On time ranking
2003 Q1 17/17
2003 Q2 16/17
2003 Q3 13/17

But hey, you're getting better!!!

Cancelation rate
15/17

Lost bags
16/17

But you'll be serving "small cities", so you won't be competing against big iron..

CHS?
CLT?
SAV?

dem Etlanta boys will have a field day.... Hmm... 757 or CRJ-200.....

We are trying to SAVE your job!!!

Loss of feed at IAD would equal more furloughs at UAL, so that IS what you advocate, You want to trade good paying NB jobs for poorly paying ones at ACA (not that it will work...)

Z-man don't make 200K on the 777 (more like 140). In any case, guess you should have picked jets out of pilot training. Don't blame me for your payrates. If you RJ guys would quit wasting money trying to sue DAL and join together industry wide for better RJ pay rates, you'd be much better off. But I guess if you aren't willing to fly the RJ for 17 an hour, you'll have a line of a hundred other guys who will....

I don't go to the desert (I'm allergic to sand....)

Only RJ's are referred to as "cockroaches"

 

[46Driver]

What color are our jets? I guess we will find out on Wednesday - also whether or not we are getting Airbus's or Boeings.

Small cities are still to be determined. However, many passengers will like the idea of going non-stop to Dulles instead of connecting. Also, I fully expect cities like MOB and others to set up a travel bank for competition to lower fares across the board. As for Delta having a field day, they have enough problems with JetBlue and AirTran - although Delta is still doing the best of the hub and spoke carriers (i.e., they are not in bankruptcy.)

As for "saving my job", if MESA takes over it becomes a dead end job literally at the food stamp level. Ornstein breaks up companies. None of us who are first officers will ever upgrade and thus never get hired without jet PIC time - oh well, that's the breaks. It is UAL that brought in the BAIN corporation and a line by line expense system - in other words, UAL is whipsawing one carrier against another and making my job easy to walk away from.

The loss of feed at IAD and Chicago? You are getting MESA. It is what you asked for. What more do you want? Do you want us to take a pay cut and keep flying for you? Do you want our Dulles gates now too? As for that RJDC thing, that is a Delta - Comair struggle with the big difference being Delta OWNS Comair and everything in Cinci. Hard as it is for you to imagine, UAL does NOT own ACA - thus you can not dictate to us. As an independent entity, we have the right to turn down the contract you offered - or do you dispute that? I still wonder how you could spin it to the public, "ACA will fly for $x or UAL will confiscate ACA's airplanes and ACA's infrastructure." That's like Dell saying, "Intel will sell us computer chips at $x or Dell will confiscate all of Intel's chips and factories." Take it over when we go bankrupt, after all, its only a matter of time, right?

You are right about one thing - there are kids out there who line up to fly for $17 an hour - and no, I am not one of them.

 

[Busdrvr]

"we have the right to turn down the contract you offered - or do you dispute that?"

Just like Johnny O has the right to apeal to the owners of the company.

"Take it over when we go bankrupt, after all, its only a matter of time, right?"

I honestly think it is, no spin. The problem is the loss of feed in the meantime. it wouldn't surprise me to see U jump in with it's WO's to fill the gap, especially since we are talking about the slow months.

"UAL is whipsawing one carrier against another and making my job easy to walk away from."

Welcome to the real airline world. Pax "whipsaw" UAL gainst AMR, DAL, JBlu, SWA, and NWA, every day, on every route. You guys had a sweet deal, fee for departure. The world gets much tougher when you actually have to sell tickets and satisfy customers.

"You are right about one thing - there are kids out there who line up to fly for $17 an hour - and no, I am not one of them."

Might I recommend that you get the best security clearance you can and volunteer for all the "crap" mil jobs that deal with planning and EW. I'm honestly wondering if it will EVER again be worth what you are going through to get to the majors. Plenty of good paying Def contract work out there though. If we were buds BSing at a BBQ, I'd recommend you turn your back on this industry and not look back.

 

[46Driver]

Well, it may be freezing in hell because we are at last reaching some common ground.

I do agree that Johnny O has the right to appeal to our shareholders - it is capitalism. I don't like the situation but that's life.

No spin, I don't think both UAL and USAir are going to make it. When one goes down, the other might survive in a weakened state. I think the industry is a revolutionary, not evolutionary, state right now. What ACA is doing is a gamble for the company but I like the idea of hitting towns too small to turn a profit on with a 737 but we can still make money on a CRJ - Ty Cobb would call it hitting them where they ain't. At any rate, I'm willing to roll the dice.

The whipsaw is everywhere due to an overabundance of supply and a very price sensitive demand - no argument there.

You are dead on the money on the last item. I am finishing up my Master's now in International Relations and have already been selected for several seminars at the Naval War College. As part of my studies, I had to read "Holy War, Inc." by CNN terrorism corrospondent Peter Bergen. I highly recommend it - and know I want to pursue something in the anti-terrorism field. I am telling a lot of friends the same thing you just said about this industry going to the dogs - and have been pretty successful at getting the message across: most getting out are going to Customs, FBI, or corporate.

Finally, I do mean what I said. I don't want to see anybody lose their jobs. One of my buds got his dream job at UAL, bought a house and settled, only to be on the street 6 months later. Its not pretty for any of us. Best of luck and hope that a rising economy lifts all boats.