United Revenues Increasing
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Cosmo
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Chip:Chip Munn said:
Now you're just making things up. Other than reinstating mostly international flights dropped earlier this year due to the Iraq war and SARS, what network carrier is adding capacity this fall? And while the economic forecasts are not all rosy, the economy is showing increasing signs of recovery, as discussed in this Washington Post article today. But, as you say, it's just your opinion.
Where did this quote come from? I just re-read the Rocky Mountain News article and it was not in there. Please provide a link to this quote.
Again, please provide a link to the AP article, or at least name the analysts making this prediction. And regarding the predicted loss of more than $300 million in the 3rd quarter, that number might not be too far off the mark on a net basis, which includes reorganization expenses. But IMHO, I think there is a good chance that United will actually record an operating profit for the quarter, even with the expected September fall-off in traffic.
This is old news. Brace's comments are now 4 or 5 months old, and have you never heard of a "trial balloon" to gauge the analysts' reactions? Moreover, Tilton has maintained from the beginning of the bankruptcy process that United would likely emerge in the 2nd quarter of 2004, so why are you fixated on one comment in this one interview? As you know, the bankruptcy process is neither easy or smooth, and proposed timelines have a tendency to shift to the right or left as the process unfolds. So move on -- you've flogged this dead horse enough!
Unlike some other carriers, United was only minimally affected by the blackout. So while it might have a noticable effect on industry results for the month, it won't have much of an impact on United.
You're assuming that, because YOU haven't seen United's business plan, it therefore must not exist. Could you at least entertain the theory that United is keeping the plan very closely guarded until the time is right to publicize it?
Gee, US Airways was bankrupt yet IT didn't need to sell assets, so why do you assume that United will have to do it? And even if United does determine that it's necessary to sell some assets, US Airways will almost certainly be outbid for anything of real value by other carriers, most especially Delta. Plus, Bronner's deep pockets won't help in purchasing United's LHR and/or NRT route authority because DOT has previously ruled that only airlines can hold route authorities. So what's left -- some aircraft? Anyone can get aircraft cheaply these days. Gate leases? They may be assignable, they may not -- it depends on the specific lease language. Slots at DCA, LGA and JFK? Possibly, but DOT might not approve given that US Airways is already the largest slot holder at DCA and, IIRC, at LGA as well. And what's US Airways going to do with JFK slots, start Transcon service competing with American, Delta and jetBlue? Yeah, right!
Remember, any asset sale by United will occur because the Creditors' Committee wants it to happen, which means they are primarily concerned with who will offer the highest price for any given asset so that they can maximize the amount of money recovered, and only secondarily concerned with whether and how such a sale would impact United's ongoing operations. The fact that United and US Airways are both in the Star Alliance will have little, if any, impact with the creditors. So your theory that US Airways will likely grow through the acquisition of some of United's assets is not supported by the facts of this situation.
Cosmo
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Chip:Chip Munn said:
Don't you think that it's a bit unusual that ONLY YOU are discussing this scenario? Wouldn't you think that if there was any real chance of such an asset sale happening, rumors would have been picked up and discussed by Wall Street analysts, trade publications (AW&ST, Aviation Daily, etc.), news magazines (Time, Newsweek, Business Week, etc.) and/or major newspapers (WSJ, NYT, WP, etc.)? Doesn't this strike you as more than a little odd? Do you really expect us to believe that YOU, AND YOU ALONE, have access to sources at the highest levels in CCY (and possibly WHQ) while nobody else does?
Puh-lease! Do you have any rational explanation for this? But spare us the McCarthy-ite "I've got secret sources that I can't reveal" line. <_<
Cosmo
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And just one more thing --
This evening, United announced that it would relax its reticketing policy, following (somewhat belatedly) the actions of four other network carriers. Here is United's press release.
BTW, which network major has yet to adopt this change? Yep, that's right, customer-friendly US Airways. Any comments, Chip?
This evening, United announced that it would relax its reticketing policy, following (somewhat belatedly) the actions of four other network carriers. Here is United's press release.
BTW, which network major has yet to adopt this change? Yep, that's right, customer-friendly US Airways. Any comments, Chip?
tumbleweed
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"In my opinion, the most difficult issue will be finding exit financing and I continue to believe that United, like other bankrupt airlines in the past, may be forced to sell assets to fund it reorganization emergence, with the likely candidate to acquire such assets US Airways."
This is a real knee slapper.
The recently bankrupt, perenial money losing, regional carrier betting it's future on regonal jets -USair- is going to by the assets of United Airlines. SANITY CHECK PLEASE.
At least the buffalo chipster finally admits the true motivation for his nonstop cynical attacks. He, like all the others salivate at what we have and what they would like their airline to be like. Don't think so chipster. Have a good career in your RJ....And oh yea, just go away.
But before you go, I have a good rumour for you. And this is true.
An analyst for a major equity firm I talked to lately expects UAL to be the best positioned major airline in 1 year and also expects to see USair back in bankrupcy by next fall. This is not only his position but that of the entire firm.
Tumbleweed
This is a real knee slapper.
The recently bankrupt, perenial money losing, regional carrier betting it's future on regonal jets -USair- is going to by the assets of United Airlines. SANITY CHECK PLEASE.
At least the buffalo chipster finally admits the true motivation for his nonstop cynical attacks. He, like all the others salivate at what we have and what they would like their airline to be like. Don't think so chipster. Have a good career in your RJ....And oh yea, just go away.
But before you go, I have a good rumour for you. And this is true.
An analyst for a major equity firm I talked to lately expects UAL to be the best positioned major airline in 1 year and also expects to see USair back in bankrupcy by next fall. This is not only his position but that of the entire firm.
Tumbleweed
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iflyjets, you are my hero - the martr - may you enjoy your 19 virgin flight attendants.
...To add to my last post regarding my conversation with the ANALyst, he also said that one of the senior members of his firm was responsible to go out and pitch UAL equity shares of the post bankrupcy UAL and said that investors are coming out of the woodwork. Some even as lowly as a pension fund. The most important point that I picked up was that UAL sparks interest in these investors and holds such great value because it has retained its route structure. To sell a chunk of UAL would not make sense to any of the parties involved in this companies current proceedings.
Tumbleweed
...To add to my last post regarding my conversation with the ANALyst, he also said that one of the senior members of his firm was responsible to go out and pitch UAL equity shares of the post bankrupcy UAL and said that investors are coming out of the woodwork. Some even as lowly as a pension fund. The most important point that I picked up was that UAL sparks interest in these investors and holds such great value because it has retained its route structure. To sell a chunk of UAL would not make sense to any of the parties involved in this companies current proceedings.
Tumbleweed
USA320Pilot
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I find the emotion in this thread interesting, however, Whiteford discussed how the change in sick policy and pass privileges were a step back to "old labor relations". Did you miss that? I interpreted Whiteford's comments to be very emotional and pointed.
Regardless, was Tague's revenue news more about the industry ATA report or UA itself?
In regard to second quarter revenues, would anybody care to comment on the information reported at ChipsPlace.com? For specific information click onto Rumor Control, Daily Airline News, then click onto the August 15 report. What does the ATA second quarter data indicate about industry data and the relation between US & UA?
Moreover, what's your opinion of this story?
At last, some good news for airlines.
By the way, I was just wondering, why are some of you so sensitive and emotional if you believe my information is false?
Best regards,
Chip
Regardless, was Tague's revenue news more about the industry ATA report or UA itself?
In regard to second quarter revenues, would anybody care to comment on the information reported at ChipsPlace.com? For specific information click onto Rumor Control, Daily Airline News, then click onto the August 15 report. What does the ATA second quarter data indicate about industry data and the relation between US & UA?
Moreover, what's your opinion of this story?
At last, some good news for airlines.
By the way, I was just wondering, why are some of you so sensitive and emotional if you believe my information is false?
Best regards,
Chip
USA320Pilot
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Cosmo:
Chip said: "Meanwhile, in regard to United, Tague did not provide specific numbers and he said, (the positive trends) "are not strong enough to give us indications of profit," which is a requirement for the airline to obtain the loan guarantee."
Cosmo asked: "Where did this quote come from? I just re-read the Rocky Mountain News article and it was not in there. Please provide a link to this quote."
Link: Still the positive trends "are not strong enough to give us indications of profit"
Chip said: Moreover, according to the AP, analysts predict the Chicago-based Company would lose "more than $300 million in the quarter ending Sept. 30, even as the industry shows signs of improvement."
Cosmo asked: "Again, please provide a link to the AP article."
Link: Analysts say the airline would lose "more than $300 million in the quarter ending Sept. 30"
Cosmo asked: "Don't you think that it's a bit unusual that ONLY YOU are discussing this scenario?"
Chip answers: Nope...and I'm not the only one discussing this scenario. Why don't you check with contacts at WHQ or TK or even ask the US chairman of the board? Moreover, Pittsburgh area newspaper the Beaver County Times wrote on August 23, William Lauer, chairman of Allegheny Capital Management said, "It's possible (US Airways) management is awaiting the outcome of United's bankruptcy before committing itself (to the Pittsburgh hub). "The (bankruptcy) case could resolve itself in three ways: United could continue as-is, it could continue as a smaller airline or it could go belly-up," Lauer said.
Regardless, as I have said before I do not know whether or not a UA fragmentation will occur, but again it's being discussed between the parties. In my opinion, we could know more before the end of the year.
Just one more point, in regard for those who like to "shoot the messenger" or compare UA to US, what were the net Q2 earnings for the two companies?
Best regards,
Chip
Chip said: "Meanwhile, in regard to United, Tague did not provide specific numbers and he said, (the positive trends) "are not strong enough to give us indications of profit," which is a requirement for the airline to obtain the loan guarantee."
Cosmo asked: "Where did this quote come from? I just re-read the Rocky Mountain News article and it was not in there. Please provide a link to this quote."
Link: Still the positive trends "are not strong enough to give us indications of profit"
Chip said: Moreover, according to the AP, analysts predict the Chicago-based Company would lose "more than $300 million in the quarter ending Sept. 30, even as the industry shows signs of improvement."
Cosmo asked: "Again, please provide a link to the AP article."
Link: Analysts say the airline would lose "more than $300 million in the quarter ending Sept. 30"
Cosmo asked: "Don't you think that it's a bit unusual that ONLY YOU are discussing this scenario?"
Chip answers: Nope...and I'm not the only one discussing this scenario. Why don't you check with contacts at WHQ or TK or even ask the US chairman of the board? Moreover, Pittsburgh area newspaper the Beaver County Times wrote on August 23, William Lauer, chairman of Allegheny Capital Management said, "It's possible (US Airways) management is awaiting the outcome of United's bankruptcy before committing itself (to the Pittsburgh hub). "The (bankruptcy) case could resolve itself in three ways: United could continue as-is, it could continue as a smaller airline or it could go belly-up," Lauer said.
Regardless, as I have said before I do not know whether or not a UA fragmentation will occur, but again it's being discussed between the parties. In my opinion, we could know more before the end of the year.
Just one more point, in regard for those who like to "shoot the messenger" or compare UA to US, what were the net Q2 earnings for the two companies?
Best regards,
Chip
767jetz
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A moment of silence for Iflyjetz...iflyjetz said:
He certainly went out in a blaze of glory! 😛
Iflyjetz, if you can hear us now, you will be remembered for your objective opinions, your sense of humor, your commitment to fighting the good fight. and most of all... YOUR EXIT STRATEGY!
God bless you man!!!
767jetz
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Chip says:"I find the emotion in this thread interesting, however, Whiteford discussed how the change in sick policy and pass privileges were a step back to "old labor relations". Did you miss that? "
767jetz responds:
No Chip we didn't miss it. There are things at play that as an ousider like you just couldn't possibly understand, and since it's really none of your business, I don't want to waste my time explaining to you.
I will re-post the same thing I said to you on the US board:
I think you are blowing it out of proportion. But since you are not a UA pilot, you do not know the internal politics revolving around this issue. I'll bet that 90% of the pilots will not be affected and not even care because of the exceptions that cover all but the most extreme cases. But again, you wouldn't know these details since you are not privy to the additional information provided us by UA ALPA, and our flight office.
This is another example of you trying to sound informed, when in fact you have only a very rudimentary understanding and certainly lack a large portion of the facts. It's not your problem, so don't worry about it.
Ua is still running like a fined tuned clock and the moral is far higher than it is at US, AA, and many other airlines.
Just look at the conversations on the US boad for proof.
Chip says:"By the way, I was just wondering, why are some of you so sensitive and emotional if you believe my information is false?"
767jetz responds:
Because you just don't know when to quit. Your like the nerd in school with the big glasses and the pocket protector, who follows you around, poking you in the shoulder with his finger, saying "Excuse me... excuse me!!... EXCUSE ME!... just one more thing.... Excuse me!!???" As much as you try to ignore him, eventually you have no choice but to turn around and deck him!
Haven't you noticed that the people around here are just plain tired of you? Go play in someone else's sandbox. No one here is going to be convinced that your predictions will come true or that your OPINIONS are based in fact. Even your own co-workers have grown tired of you.
P.S. feel free to psycho analyze our emotional state and aggression toward you, if it makes you feel better. The fafct is that it is simple cause and effect. If you stir peoples emotion with unreasonable persistance, eventually you will illicit an emotional response. It's basic Psychology 101, Dr. Freud!
767jetz responds:
No Chip we didn't miss it. There are things at play that as an ousider like you just couldn't possibly understand, and since it's really none of your business, I don't want to waste my time explaining to you.
I will re-post the same thing I said to you on the US board:
I think you are blowing it out of proportion. But since you are not a UA pilot, you do not know the internal politics revolving around this issue. I'll bet that 90% of the pilots will not be affected and not even care because of the exceptions that cover all but the most extreme cases. But again, you wouldn't know these details since you are not privy to the additional information provided us by UA ALPA, and our flight office.
This is another example of you trying to sound informed, when in fact you have only a very rudimentary understanding and certainly lack a large portion of the facts. It's not your problem, so don't worry about it.
Ua is still running like a fined tuned clock and the moral is far higher than it is at US, AA, and many other airlines.
Just look at the conversations on the US boad for proof.
Chip says:"By the way, I was just wondering, why are some of you so sensitive and emotional if you believe my information is false?"
767jetz responds:
Because you just don't know when to quit. Your like the nerd in school with the big glasses and the pocket protector, who follows you around, poking you in the shoulder with his finger, saying "Excuse me... excuse me!!... EXCUSE ME!... just one more thing.... Excuse me!!???" As much as you try to ignore him, eventually you have no choice but to turn around and deck him!
Haven't you noticed that the people around here are just plain tired of you? Go play in someone else's sandbox. No one here is going to be convinced that your predictions will come true or that your OPINIONS are based in fact. Even your own co-workers have grown tired of you.
P.S. feel free to psycho analyze our emotional state and aggression toward you, if it makes you feel better. The fafct is that it is simple cause and effect. If you stir peoples emotion with unreasonable persistance, eventually you will illicit an emotional response. It's basic Psychology 101, Dr. Freud!
ual747mech
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UAL CORPORATION AND SUBSIDIARY COMPANIES (filing entities only)
CONDENSED CONSOLIDATING STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS
FOR THE MONTH ENDED JUNE 30, 2003
($ amounts in 000's)
UAL
CONSOLIDATING
Total operating revenues 1,258,531
Total operating expenses 1,238,920
Earnings (loss) from operations 19,611
I predict July's earnings will be double than above because of record loads in July. Looks like things are looking up.
CONDENSED CONSOLIDATING STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS
FOR THE MONTH ENDED JUNE 30, 2003
($ amounts in 000's)
UAL
CONSOLIDATING
Total operating revenues 1,258,531
Total operating expenses 1,238,920
Earnings (loss) from operations 19,611
I predict July's earnings will be double than above because of record loads in July. Looks like things are looking up.
USA320Pilot
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767jetz:
767jetz said: "Haven't you noticed that the people around here are just plain tired of you? Go play in someone else's sandbox."
Chip responds: 767, if you remember, I rarely if ever posted on the UA board, until I received an email discussing Ukridge and his sophist posts. if people are going to purposely misrepresent me, then I feel it's necessary to respond since I am the only person on this message board with the "guts" to identify myself.
767jetz said: "No one here is going to be convinced that your predictions will come true or that your OPINIONS are based in fact. Even your own co-workers have grown tired of you."
Chip responds: 767, my comments are not predictions, but information I have obtained from sources within US senior management, Wall Street, or other sources close to the company. Nobody knows if they will come true, but as you know, in regard to a UA fragmentation, the US chairman of the board has publicly said three separate he is interested in acquiring UA assets for US. Since he owns UA EETC's, do you think it's possible he could transfer UA aircraft to US?
767jetz said: P.S. feel free to psycho analyze our emotional state and aggression toward you, if it makes you feel better. The fafct is that it is simple cause and effect. If you stir peoples emotion with unreasonable persistance, eventually you will illicit an emotional response.
Chip comments: Recently I have only responded when others have made smart aleck or sophist comments, therefore, I do not believe it's "unreasonable persistence". However, if you believe that a UA fragmentation will not occur why are you so emotional regarding my comments?
By the way, why did you not answer my questions in my proceeding this post?
Regardless, have a good weekend and good night.
Best regards,
Chip
767jetz said: "Haven't you noticed that the people around here are just plain tired of you? Go play in someone else's sandbox."
Chip responds: 767, if you remember, I rarely if ever posted on the UA board, until I received an email discussing Ukridge and his sophist posts. if people are going to purposely misrepresent me, then I feel it's necessary to respond since I am the only person on this message board with the "guts" to identify myself.
767jetz said: "No one here is going to be convinced that your predictions will come true or that your OPINIONS are based in fact. Even your own co-workers have grown tired of you."
Chip responds: 767, my comments are not predictions, but information I have obtained from sources within US senior management, Wall Street, or other sources close to the company. Nobody knows if they will come true, but as you know, in regard to a UA fragmentation, the US chairman of the board has publicly said three separate he is interested in acquiring UA assets for US. Since he owns UA EETC's, do you think it's possible he could transfer UA aircraft to US?
767jetz said: P.S. feel free to psycho analyze our emotional state and aggression toward you, if it makes you feel better. The fafct is that it is simple cause and effect. If you stir peoples emotion with unreasonable persistance, eventually you will illicit an emotional response.
Chip comments: Recently I have only responded when others have made smart aleck or sophist comments, therefore, I do not believe it's "unreasonable persistence". However, if you believe that a UA fragmentation will not occur why are you so emotional regarding my comments?
By the way, why did you not answer my questions in my proceeding this post?
Regardless, have a good weekend and good night.
Best regards,
Chip
USA320Pilot
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767jetz:
The information I post is not "spin", but it's based on discussions with "informed" people. Furthermore, it's been said by the US chairman of the board multiple times -- is that "spin" too?
As I said before, if some United posters would not be "smart aleck's" or if people did make sophist comments about me on this board, hiding behind a computer screen with no "guts" to identify them self, then I would not respectfully post on this board.
767, let's be honest here, you are scared to death that my comments could come true, even if it's the only way United can emerge from bankruptcy. Why? Because an asset sale could be the only way for your company to obtain enough exit financing, just like when United bought Pan Am assets. Do you remember when United helped Pan Am get out of bankruptcy and now the shoe may be on the other foot.
Best regards,
Chip
The information I post is not "spin", but it's based on discussions with "informed" people. Furthermore, it's been said by the US chairman of the board multiple times -- is that "spin" too?
As I said before, if some United posters would not be "smart aleck's" or if people did make sophist comments about me on this board, hiding behind a computer screen with no "guts" to identify them self, then I would not respectfully post on this board.
767, let's be honest here, you are scared to death that my comments could come true, even if it's the only way United can emerge from bankruptcy. Why? Because an asset sale could be the only way for your company to obtain enough exit financing, just like when United bought Pan Am assets. Do you remember when United helped Pan Am get out of bankruptcy and now the shoe may be on the other foot.
Best regards,
Chip
RowUnderDCA
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Moderators-
I'm sensitive to annoying people who work for airlines. I come from an airline family, that experienced a lot of the stress and financial turmoil resulting from liquidation that these folks are going through right now.
That said, I'd like to know whether or not these boards are intended to be cheerleading for the airlines' respective employee groups. If so, I will no longer visit these boards. As I have said before, I am used to internet bulletin boards to be about (conspicuously) the free exchange of ideas, often unusual ones.
The persistent, almost exclusive, insistence that certain ideas should not be posted here, makes me sincerely concerned that I am not welcome here. It seems to me that the conspicuous lack of activity on the UAL board could be that others feel the same way I do. They don't post because they don't feel welcome to say something that might offend the sensitive 'owners' of the board.
Please let me know if this bulletin board is to be treated as an employee 'booster' group.
Consider me confused.
I'm sensitive to annoying people who work for airlines. I come from an airline family, that experienced a lot of the stress and financial turmoil resulting from liquidation that these folks are going through right now.
That said, I'd like to know whether or not these boards are intended to be cheerleading for the airlines' respective employee groups. If so, I will no longer visit these boards. As I have said before, I am used to internet bulletin boards to be about (conspicuously) the free exchange of ideas, often unusual ones.
The persistent, almost exclusive, insistence that certain ideas should not be posted here, makes me sincerely concerned that I am not welcome here. It seems to me that the conspicuous lack of activity on the UAL board could be that others feel the same way I do. They don't post because they don't feel welcome to say something that might offend the sensitive 'owners' of the board.
Please let me know if this bulletin board is to be treated as an employee 'booster' group.
Consider me confused.
