Unready For Takeoff

[gso-crew]

The proposed merger of US Airways and America West is a triumph of hope over experience.

Combining the ailing America West with the dying US Airways is a great deal--for creditors. The injection of $1.5 billion in new capital will keep this sickly hybrid airborne for a while, long enough for some debt holders to get most of their money back.


The new US Airways will be the first national low-cost hub-and-spoke network with simplified pricing, international service, frequent-flier programs, assigned seating and first-class cabins--which sounds a lot like the old US Airways with the same overstretched, grumpy employees.

http://www.forbes.com/business/free_forbes...oomag&referrer=

 

[usfliboi]

Oh please! Every body has one ... an opinion!

 

[sharonstoneseat]

A passenger showed me this very negative article while I was sitting on my jumpseat during a ground stop and we had a fairly lively discussion on it.

One of the statistical points that stood out in the article is that the most junior pilot at U has 19 years.

And I asked him.....the problem with that is??????

Finally got him to admit that the traveling public is obsessed with getting the lowest fare possible and that an experienced pilot means nothing to them except an alleged high cost that filters down to the traveler.

Sadly, because of the slant (financial) of many articles on the industry the public has less and less respect for the profession that gets them from point A to point B safely.

It can be very difficult not to be a grouchy, overstreched employee when many passengers think that they are experts on the business of aviation and you find yourself defending your front end bcause they have stuck with their profession through many turbulent years and remained competent.

Someone needs to address this subject in the print media.

 

[delldude]

A passenger showed me this very negative article while I was sitting on my jumpseat during a ground stop and we had a fairly lively discussion on it.
mark tatge is 700uw
One of the statistical points that stood out in the article is that the most junior pilot at U has 19 years.
yes and what of the senior guy at HP..9??
And I asked him.....the problem with that is??????

Finally got him to admit that the traveling public is obsessed with getting the lowest fare possible and that an experienced pilot means nothing to them except an alleged high cost that filters down to the traveler.
and when you go you shopping you always buy the most expensive??
Sadly, because of the slant (financial) of many articles on the industry the public has less and less respect for the profession that gets them from point A to point B safely.
wal-mart mentality?? financially they're all hurting so how you qualify that?
It can be very difficult not to be a grouchy, overstreched employee when many passengers think that they are experts on the business of aviation and you find yourself defending your front end bcause they have stuck with their profession through many turbulent years and remained competent.
grouchy overstretched refers to all the promises and all the cash we gave back.....they could give a damn...
Someone needs to address this subject in the print media.

[post="276002"][/post]​

 

[LD3]

Finally got him to admit that the traveling public is obsessed with getting the lowest fare possible and that an experienced pilot means nothing to them except an alleged high cost that filters down to the traveler.


An experienced pilot means nothing to the traveling public....wow, I bet the idiot that made that statement would change his or her tune when an inflight emergency developes...

 

[delldude]

An experienced pilot means nothing to the traveling public....wow, I bet the idiot that made that statement would change his or her tune when an inflight emergency developes...

[post="276010"][/post]​

no problem just pull up to a cloud.....

 

[Rico]

Yeah, well, they are the same uninformed fliers that also assume a parachute is somewhere onboard for them if they need it.

Duh. Informed people know that there are only three on any plane, and they go to the Priest, Rabbi, and the Baptist Preacher...

Seriously, you think it no longer amaze me about such things. I used to think that most sane people would prefer an experienced pilot, much like they prefer an experienced surgeon. But then just tonight on the news they were talking about how people crossing the boarder into Mexico for "cut-rate" plastic surgery were surprised with poor results.

Go figure...

 

[EyeInTheSky]

A passenger showed me this very negative article while I was sitting on my jumpseat during a ground stop and we had a fairly lively discussion on it.

One of the statistical points that stood out in the article is that the most junior pilot at U has 19 years. 

And I asked him.....the problem with that is?????? 

Finally got him to admit that the traveling public is obsessed with getting the lowest fare possible and that an experienced pilot means nothing to them except an alleged high cost that filters down to the traveler.

Sadly, because of the slant (financial) of many articles on the industry the public has less and less respect for the profession that gets them from point A to point B safely. 

It can be very difficult not to be a grouchy, overstreched employee when many passengers think that they are experts on the business of aviation and you find yourself defending your front end bcause they have stuck with their profession through many turbulent years and remained competent. 

Someone needs to address this subject in the print media.

[post="276002"][/post]​

Sharonstoneseat, it's been addressed. You won't see a change in attitude until planes start falling out of the sky. And, why did they fall out of the sky? Because years ago the airlines just could not recruit the best people for the job. Next time a passenger talks to you about pilot salaries just ask them if they had a choice would THEY choose the least expensive physician for critical surgery.

 

[eolesen]

You won't see a change in attitude until planes start falling out of the sky. And, why did they fall out of the sky? Because years ago the airlines just could not recruit the best people for the job.

[post="276188"][/post]​

Yet, the only "budget" crash I can think of by a US carrier was Valujet, and that wasn't remotely due to the experience level of the pilots.


I'm not suggesting that paying people less results in a safer operation, but history has proven so far that there's not necessarily a correlation between pilot pay and hull loss rates.

I find it ironic that none of the other US airlines known for paying their pilots (or all of their employees for that matter) next to nothing (People Express, New York Air, Tower, Vanguard, Markair, Air South, Braniff III, Midway II, Pan Am II & III, Kiwi) ever had an accident which resulted in loss of life.

Same thing goes for the outsourcing of maintenance -- the only example I can think of outsourced maintenance having resulted in loss of life was with Mesa @ CLT. Any other example where poor maintenance caused the accident seems to have involved in-house mechanics.

 

[whlinder]

I thought the ASA EMB 120 that crashed a few years ago had something to do with faulty outsourced maintenance?

 

[eolesen]

I thought the ASA EMB 120 that crashed a few years ago had something to do with faulty outsourced maintenance?

[post="276292"][/post]​

It was a separated prop blade, due to cracks which weren't discovered.

Hamilton-Standard took the heat on that, and I don't know that I'd consider the inspection of a component by its manufacturer being in the same league as an outsourced MRO shop.

 

[Mtnman928]

I find it ironic that none of the other US airlines known for paying their pilots (or all of their employees for that matter) next to nothing (People Express, New York Air, Tower, Vanguard, Markair, Air South, Braniff III, Midway II, Pan Am II & III, Kiwi) ever had an accident which resulted in loss of life.

[post="276289"][/post]​

I think the irony is none of these carriers exist today. Was it the high salaries that put them under?

Mtnman

 

[whlinder]

It was a separated prop blade, due to cracks which weren't discovered.

Hamilton-Standard took the heat on that, and I don't know that I'd consider the inspection of a component by its manufacturer being in the same league as an outsourced MRO shop.

[post="276304"][/post]​

Thanks, I had forgotten the details. All I could remember was blame being placed at some company other than the operating airline.

 

[eolesen]

I think the irony is none of these carriers exist today. Was it the high salaries that put them under?

[post="276348"][/post]​

Technically, PE still exists today. Ironically, when CO went thru their second bankruptcy, People Express, Inc was the surviving corporate entity. Its name was then changed to Continental Air Holdings. Don't believe it? Go check Edgar.

But your point is still valid -- those with the lowest costs don't necessarily win. It takes a lot more than a cost structure to be successful.