Us Airways Determines Washington

[Tim Nelson]

Talk of immediate liquidation is cheap and not anything more than manufacturing or positioning. To rightly divide the questions regarding liquidation, one must not look to the immediate but to the larger picture.

Let me suggest that the President of the United States has something to say regarding the ATSB or calling in a particular loan, and to believe otherwise does harm to the division of the issues. The simple truth is that US AIRWAYS employs between 10,000-15,000 Americans from the state of PA, and a good deal from NC.

We already know that the President now enjoys a slight advantage in PA for the purposes of the National election, however, it is clearly too close to call. If the ATSB calls in the loan then I believe US AIRWAYS stands a better than average chance of liquidation before Nov 2. In which case, the liquidation of US AIRWAYS could very well sway the close PA voting into the hands of the topsy/turvy Senator from Mass...and possibly the Presidency. Further, with a liquidation and thousands laid off in NC, it could spell trouble for Bush in NC. At any rate, the point is that any liquidation of US AIRWAYS will play a significant role in the Presidential campaign.

The problem for Bush, IMO, is that the AFLCIO understands this and may actually want US AIRWAYS to go under before Nov 2 to help position their golden child called leftwing politics, and also indirectly grant competitive relief for United. Certainly any action or inaction by the Union Boss's to induce a quick chapter 7 woul result in zero benefit to US AIRWAYS employees.

In conclusion, IMO, the ATSB and Bush's administration shows a favorable hand to US AIRWAYS, and it might very well mean chapter 11, but chapter 7 will be along way from home. And although A union may have self helps at its disposal to devastate 28,000 jobs, I think such self helps won't become legal until sometime after Nov. 2. Specifically I don't believe US AIRWAYS will be granted the right to arbrogate contracts until [at least] sometime after November 2.

Regards,

 

[Dizel8]

All well and true, but consider the effect it wil have on all the other airlines, who combined has a lot more voters than U.

Secondly, it will be fodder for Kerry, showing how the Prez. is mismanaging goverment funds and allowing big business to run over employees.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Tim,
Your thoughts are interesting but I don't really think the American people think that any handling of the airline industry will be viewed politically. The legacy airlines have had such a bad reputation for so long that the public is more interested in seeing them put out of their misery and off the front page of the Bad News Times. Further, most people recognize that the problems the legacy airlines will face cannot be solved by either party but must be fixed by the industry itself.

It is also a bit foolhardy to think that US will be spared to save UA - again for the same reason as above. The US government and the American people are no more interested in saving an airline than they are in saving the peacock at NBC. Pan Am and Eastern were far more venerable airlines in their days than US and the American people honestly didn't get real worked up when either failed. It really is a bit egotistical to think that any company except for one as big and commerically important to the US such as Boeing is big enough that it will shape national policy.

Finally, how many airline employees do you think are undecided anyway? Labor unions almost exclusively endorse Democrats. If US employees plan to vote for Bush/Cheney, they are doing it for reasons other than the labor-management issues facing US and the rest of the legacy industry. If they aren't decided, they are far more likely to rank other issues as being far more important than USAirways.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Finally, how many airline employees do you think are undecided anyway? Labor unions almost exclusively endorse Democrats. If US employees plan to vote for Bush/Cheney, they are doing it for reasons other than the labor-management issues facing US and the rest of the legacy industry. If they aren't decided, they are far more likely to rank other issues as being far more important than USAirways.

[post="176796"][/post]​

It's not just airline employees who would be affected. A lot of support people will lose their jobs in the short term. If USAirways liquidates before Nov. 2, Bush stands to lose a whole lot more votes in Pennsylvania than just USAirways employees. Why? Because that driver, who no longer has his job because there are no crews to take to/from the hotel, will see Bush on TV talking about how good he's done with creating jobs, and he will hear a liar. Multiply that by several hundred, or thousand, who are affected directly and indirectly, and "toss up" state Pennsylvania may just go democrat.

And Bush knows it!

And Bush cannot afford it!

 

[ktflyhome]

Trust me, the general public could care less what happens to USAirways. They have NO concept of the jobs that the U employees do,nor for that matter what anyone does in this Aviation Industry. Most think of it as glorious, sexually, high falootin' job with big buck jobs and all Flight Attendants are members of the MILE HIGH CLUB and we have the best thing since sliced bread. I hear it all the time.

I have to be upfront and frank when I say, I do not wish to converse on this subject to anyone outside the Industry. I often hear, " Are you not flying today'?? It Amuses me, because I say, yes, I am flying, I am just a figmant of your imagination. I am not really here. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank History, media and your fellow travelers for spouting off all of their so called "experiences" in the skies. Security does wonders for our fellow travelors...it effects their brains. They come on board with no sense about them whatsoever. IDIOTS all.

Unless you have lived this life, no one outside the Industry understands. BOTTOM LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one gets it.!!!!

 

[cavalier]

It's not just airline employees who would be affected. A lot of support people will lose their jobs in the short term. If USAirways liquidates before Nov. 2, Bush stands to lose a whole lot more votes in Pennsylvania than just USAirways employees. Why? Because that driver, who no longer has his job because there are no crews to take to/from the hotel, will see Bush on TV talking about how good he's done with creating jobs, and he will hear a liar. Multiply that by several hundred, or thousand, who are affected directly and indirectly, and "toss up" state Pennsylvania may just go democrat.

And Bush knows it!

And Bush cannot afford it!

[post="176840"][/post]​

Wake up, you're dreaming cause the employees of U are not that many in number as to affect an election for God's sake! This is not GE where it might then be mentioned. I love how important people think they are when in reality they are a flea on the gnat’s a-z-z

Must be the stress you're under, yea, that’s it.

 

[Revolutions]

yeah. you've gotta be fooling yourself if you think anyone is going to prop up US for political purposes. Wasn't it Kerry who said that the US would be better off without US?

 

[mrfish3726]

WorldTravel,

Your right on as always. The government GAVE USAIR their chance, looks like they blew it. They gave UAL 3 chances to prove they were worth saving and they proved to the government that they didn't have what it takes either. UAL and USAIR had the same playing field that every other air line was afforded by the ATSB. They made the bet on USAIR, but couldn't by good faith let UAL screw the tax payers to.

It's time for the government to step back and finally let this industry reshape itself and leave the have nots behind.

 

[cavalier]

WorldTravel,

Your right on as always. The government GAVE USAIR their chance, looks like they blew it. They gave UAL 3 chances to prove they were worth saving and they proved to the government that they didn't have what it takes either. UAL and USAIR had the same playing field that every other air line was afforded by the ATSB. They made the bet on USAIR, but couldn't by good faith let UAL screw the tax payers to.

It's time for the government to step back and finally let this industry reshape itself and leave the have nots behind.

[post="176889"][/post]​

I said this months ago and was blasted cause people would be unemployed like it would be my friggin fault! I love it

 

[ktflyhome]

Piney....You missed my point all together. Most of the traveling public is ignorant to the aviation industry. And it is getting worse. The myths have not changed. Try explaining that to someone in coach who thinks a coke is going to cost him $1.00.

Yea, you spend all those times in hotel rooms, buy you are not the average Joe Travelor who really make up the populous.

I have beeen part of the Union because it is mandatory. I've had no choice. As far as this company is concerned, I have no respect for management or the Union. They both have kept the lives of thousands hanging while they piss around with their egos and what is going to best suit their needs.

Not sure what gravy train you are speaking of. I have lived on less this last year then I did 10 years ago. :down: :down: :angry:

 

[PITbull]

Piney....You missed my point all together. Most of the traveling public is ignorant to the aviation industry. And it is getting worse. The myths have not changed. Try explaining that to someone in coach who thinks a coke is going to cost him $1.00.

Yea, you spend all those times in hotel rooms, buy you are not the average Joe Travelor who really make up the populous.

I have beeen part of the Union because it is mandatory. I've had no choice. As far as this company is concerned, I have no respect for management or the Union. They both have kept the lives of thousands hanging while they piss around with their egos and what is going to best suit their needs.

Not sure what gravy train you are speaking of. I have lived on less this last year then I did 10 years ago. :down: :down: :angry:

[post="176937"][/post]​

I don't believe the union leadership is "pissing around" for their egos or any NEEDS they have.

If anyone feels they don't want to belong to a union as a member, you DO have a choice. Even though it is a "closed shop", any f/a can become a Ellis Objector. Just call AFA International, and they will send the paper work. This way one can forfeit representation, forfiet grievance process, and forfeit voting on contracts, and save dues dollars they feel is a waste.

 

[ISP]

I tend to believe that Bush would be pleased if US went away. It would eliminate much excess capacity and only be beneficial for his home state airlines, AA & CO.

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

Wake up, you're dreaming cause the employees of U are not that many in number as to affect an election for God's sake! This is not GE where it might then be mentioned. I love how important people think they are when in reality they are a flea on the gnat’s a-z-z

Must be the stress you're under, yea, that’s it.

[post="176886"][/post]​

Cav, I'm getting worried.......I find myself agreeing with more and more of your posts!!!! LOL. Someone seems to have a differnt outlook since they "may" be experiencing the "other side"??? GOOD DAY!!

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

I don't believe the union leadership is "pissing around" for their egos or any NEEDS they have.

If anyone feels they don't want to belong to a union as a member, you DO have a choice. Even though it is a "closed shop", any f/a can become a Ellis Objector. Just call AFA International, and they will send the paper work. This way one can forfeit representation, forfiet grievance process, and forfeit voting on contracts, and save dues dollars they feel is a waste.

[post="176969"][/post]​

PitBull......Relax!!! Just remember that not every person employed by U who is in the union, wants to be there!!!!(in the union) <_<

 

[Finish or Ignore]

Washington reacted to the unbridled arrogance of your employers like US Airways and the other 5 "major" carriers with the opening the skys to competition. This has created downward pressure on wages because DC has favored LCC's at every turn over Legacy carriers. Now LCC's have a big enough market share to control prices charged to consumers and Legacy carriers cost exceed the sale price of the ticket. You reap what you sow and unions played a huge part with the neverending demands figuring the gravy train would never end. well it ended in a train wreck and now you are all lamenting the fact. well your companies screwed the customer for years how do you expect the public to react?

[post="176881"][/post]​

As a frontline employee I fully understand the ill will towards the legacy carriers. I have detested being a part of the refusal to transition to the LCC model, or, at least somewhere in between. I am embarrased at the way we have treated the customer as dictated by company policy. Clearly, They (management) "did not get it". Now they are being forced to. I voted "against" becoming a member of my union, But to lay the blame of the current state of US on the unions is very shortsighted to say the least.