What's going on with the VBR's?

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ What's going on with the VBR's? Cancellations across the system, and rumor of a postponement of those scheduled to go in Sept., Nov., and Dec. here at MCI? :huh: Sounds like they may not know what to do!---- So what else is new? <_<

 

[Joe Patroni]

Not sure. I did talk to my sources about the VBR as to why they are only approving them at certain stations. Very interesting.

 

[Boomer]

Reference Two Separate 26 Sept 2008 Letters, from Carmine Romano & Danny Martinez Respectively, Available Through Jetnet M&E Page.

 

[FRMR12B]

View attachment mci_letter.pdf
Still no concrete numbers. :blink:

 

[Hopeful]

View attachment 7945
Still no concrete numbers. :blink:

I'll tell you what they're waiting for...The first they were waiting for the Kasher ruling regarding the seniority miscalculation for those former TWA mechanics who were on the street. That issue has been resolved. Once the re-calculation has been completed, supposedly by Nov 1, the layoffs can be determined.
Because of this issue, they can now determine how it affects the "protected" employees who, if laid off or bumped, are entitled to the $12,500.

The more people who get the $12, 500 relocation pay, the less people get the VBR.

 

[Bob Owens]

In those situations, the business
case does not support the additional cost and operational impact of granting more requests than are necessary

One positive note about the delays in granting the VBRs is that it shows that the company is being cautious about letting people, who it will be hard to replace, go.

If there were lots of people out there who were willing -and able- to do our jobs for less you would think that the company would jump at the opportunity to let topped out workers go-but they arent, because there isnt.

And thats good for us, because if they cant replace us then we should not settle for anything but full restoration-plus.

I think that they were shocked at how fast they burnt through the recall list, and a few of those that actually returned promptly put in for the VBR.

If they really felt they were paying us too much then they would jump at the opportunity to dump as many topped out workers as possible. If they could replace topped out workers who are at just over $30/hr with six weeks vacation and in the process of burning off their sick banks (which would result in around 4 or more weeks of paid time off in addition to vacation), with workers making half as much with only 5 paid days off a year and no sick time it would pay for the VBRs and even the $12500 or whatever they are offering in less than a year. Then they would be saving even more every year after that.

Look around at the people you work with. Do you see anyone under 20? Under 25? How many are under 30? How many kids out there do you think want to come into this industry when they can sell their skills elsewhere? Not many. And from a negotiations standpoint, thats good news for us.

So dont let all the doom and gloom put out by the media, the airlines and the International worry you. The airline industry is not just serving people who want to go on vacation, its more like a utility than a luxury, a vital part of the economy, the planes must fly and if we all walked they would have to bring us back because there arent enough people out there with the skills required to replace us.

 

[MCI transplant]

I'll tell you what they're waiting for...The first they were waiting for the Kasher ruling regarding the seniority miscalculation for those former TWA mechanics who were on the street. That issue has been resolved. Once the re-calculation has been completed, supposedly by Nov 1, the layoffs can be determined.
Because of this issue, they can now determine how it affects the "protected" employees who, if laid off or bumped, are entitled to the $12,500.

The more people who get the $12, 500 relocation pay, the less people get the VBR.

<_< ------ Well, that's a novel explanation! But plausible! Now, all of a sudden the exTWAers Seniority means something? "That issue has been resolved"? "Seniority miscalculation?" Resolved how? What is this? Another way to screw with the ex-TWAers? -------First, let me say there are vary few people here that will be going anywhere, even if layed-off! Most are in their early fifties, to early sixties. Their life's are here in Kansas City. Most I've talked to are getting out of Aviation completely.-------- Can't say I blame them!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------ Well, that's a novel explanation! But plausible! Now, all of a sudden the exTWAers Seniority means something? "That issue has been resolved"? "Seniority miscalculation?" Resolved how? What is this? Another way to screw with the ex-TWAers? -------First, let me say there are vary few people here that will be going anywhere, even if layed-off! Most are in their early fifties, to early sixties. Their life's are here in Kansas City. Most I've talked to are getting out of Aviation completely.-------- Can't say I blame them!

My understanding is that the lastest Kasher decision is the result of something that an Ex-TWAer who did not go to the street but went to STL before getting back to JFK, spotted. So this time its not a "lets screw TWA guys" thing, its simply enforce the language of the contract. It had to do with the loss of seniority after 3 years off payroll.

Exodus from the industry will likely be a major issue in the not too far off future. When the economy rebounds and the industry plans to expand is when it will really become an issue. Look for FAR 66 to make a resurgance.

 

[frontline]

So dont let all the doom and gloom put out by the media, the airlines and the International worry you. The airline industry is not just serving people who want to go on vacation, its more like a utility than a luxury, a vital part of the economy, the planes must fly and if we all walked they would have to bring us back because there arent enough people out there with the skills required to replace us.

I'd like to believe that, but didn't the mechanics at NW believe the same thing?

 

[eolesen]

Don't kid yourself, Bob. It might be an important link in a few places, but life would go on without AA for a day or two. That was evident when the MD80's were grounded.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'd like to believe that, but didn't the mechanics at NW believe the same thing?

The fact is that NWA searched for over a year prior to the strike and scraped the barrel dry. This was when the reserves would have been more abundant since UAL, AA, USAIR and other carriers has dumped thousands of mechanics on the street just a few years earlier. NWA found that many had already left the profession for good. That was several years ago, and more mechanics continue to leave the industry at rates never seen before and whats even more unusual is they they are leaving when their jobs are not at risk.

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------ Well, that's a novel explanation! But plausible! Now, all of a sudden the exTWAers Seniority means something? "That issue has been resolved"? "Seniority miscalculation?" Resolved how? What is this? Another way to screw with the ex-TWAers? -------First, let me say there are vary few people here that will be going anywhere, even if layed-off! Most are in their early fifties, to early sixties. Their life's are here in Kansas City. Most I've talked to are getting out of Aviation completely.-------- Can't say I blame them!

MCI, being that you are in a 100% station, maybe you are unaware what this is about. As Bob Owens said, this was about enforcing what Kasher already ruled on. It has to do with those mechanics who took the street on a layoff, be it by choice or not. Once you get laid off, your company time stops accruing immediately. However, your occupational time stops accruing after 3 years on layoff.
With the recent recalls of mechanics, the company did not adjust the occupational seniority to reflect the 25% seniority based on the 3 years that they accrued, but rather gave them credit for the full 7 years they were on layoff.

As Bob also said, this is not "screw the TWA folks" again.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

Word is all VBR's in Tulsa will be approved. They have not set a timetable as to when they may go but all are approved. According to union there will no layoffs in Tulsa due to increased work and 189 AMT's leaving with the VBR.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Word is all VBR's in Tulsa will be approved. They have not set a timetable as to when they may go but all are approved. According to union there will no layoffs in Tulsa due to increased work and 189 AMT's leaving with the VBR.

"increased work"? Don't they mean work stolen from AFW? Like the 757 and 777? I guess,when Tulsa steals the 767 from AFW, they will be hiring off the street. Won't they?

 

[Joe Patroni]

Word is all VBR's in Tulsa will be approved. They have not set a timetable as to when they may go but all are approved. According to union there will no layoffs in Tulsa due to increased work and 189 AMT's leaving with the VBR.

From what I hear from my sources, I guess is they won't be approved.