What's Next for US?
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Freighterguynow
Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2004
- Messages
- 1,276
- Reaction score
- 1,207
Would AA want to operate 14 widebody Airbuses for the next 5-10 years? Or 10 old 767-200's? Or even mostly old 757-200's? How about the 737-300/400, with most 20+ years old?
257 MD-80's all roughly 20+ years old .....
34 A-300's 20+
15 767's at 24+
AMR fleet age As of 2007 :
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/03-08/0309busoldplanescharts.pdf
257 MD-80's all roughly 20+ years old .....
34 A-300's 20+
15 767's at 24+
AMR fleet age As of 2007 :
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/03-08/0309busoldplanescharts.pdf
OTslave
Advanced
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
- Messages
- 201
- Reaction score
- 1
From the look of the merger page over at UA. It's fairly clear that UA never had intentions to merge with US.
All they did is use US to get what they really wanted, and they got it. At least there won't be any more speculations on that end.
The future for US? Right where it is. For the employees sake, I hope that AA never comes into the picture. That would be disastrous for employees.
I absolutely agree with you. The idea of merging with AA makes me nervous. I would think that labor opposition on both sides would ruin any chance of US merging with AA anyway. Let's hope that US can truly make it on its own. Sad day for US, but a wonderful day for the other guys.
AstroLounge
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,491
- Reaction score
- 213
There are TWO trains of thought on the issue.......possibly Three. The latest merger development (CO/UA) is clearly under the direction of the STAR Alliance, led by the Luft Wasse (Lufthansa) that has cannibalized many european airlines on the continent. STAR desperately needed the NYC market and was willing to do ANYTHING possible to secure it (invest in Jetblue, admit CO last Fall). They are still not finished either. USAirways is in a very precarious position. If US stays in STAR (questionable on many fronts) I wouldn't be surprised to see a US/Jetblue combination to fortify the NYC market by abandoning LGA (part of the slot swap with DL) and building on Jetblue's position at JFK. With EWR and JFK in the STAR fold, the Europeans will be HAPPY. Why US/JetBlue? I highly doubt the DOT would ever allow JB to join STAR due to competitive issues per se, but no one says another carrier (US) couldn't merge with it. Take Jetblue out of the equation, and US either STAYS in STAR and feeds the monster out of PHL,DCA and CLT (areas where even the combined UA/CO lack any meaningful presence) or US gives STAR the heave ho and abandons the alliance and moves closer to American and ONEWORLD. I have always thought US had more to offer AA in regards to complimentary routes/network than a US/UA would benefit from. The product is VERY MUCH DIFFERENT (AA a true full service legacy, US a hybrid that the Fratboys of Tempe created in their Frankenstein Lab of experiments). There are MANY pieces of the BIG PICTURE that are yet to be revealed...............American will NOT sit on the sidelines and be relagated to #3 for the longhaul..........it is NOT in their DNA and will NOT Happen. AA is dealing with multiple labor negotiations and once completed will come out with a vengance and is MORE Than CAPABLE of taking on a Larger United or a "New" Delta. People may say US has little to offer but whether You want to admit it or not, PHL is a Major US Gateway to Europe and Charlotte is very well positioned geographically in an area of the country that has seen and will continue to see explosive population growth. US's presence at DCA Reagan is a major factor in ANY scenario because most travel to the Capital will always be funneled to Reagan and not the "White Elephant" that calls it's name Dulles. (Unless you live in the Virginia hinderlands, you are not flying out of there). PHX has a large growing base but unfortunately is disposable for any airline. So that's my take on the situation..........US has a very interesting role in the process. As does American. If US bolts the STAR and upsets the Luft Wasse armada, running over to ONEWORLD and getting cozy with American..........all hell will break lose. US and AA DO NOT need to merge.............they can do exactly what UA/CO did prior to formalizing their merger and still have the same effect on the competition. Go ahead and debate it.........I'll let You know when You are Wrong! 🙄
It will not be a sad day if it inspires Doug et al. to change strategy from looking anywhere for a deal to actually running an airline.
Did business school teach any of them that the old fashioned way of growing a business is by providing a product that people want to buy, thereby gaining market share, thereby growing the business?
Only at US Airways would the potential to be the 4th largest airline in the country be seen as a huge negative. 8% of market share is hardly peanuts.
Now if all the executive suite is interested in, or capable of, is packaging the airline for sale, then the board of directors needs to take a long hard look at the people it has put in to the executive suite.
Then again maybe the board of directors has no interest in growing the business the old fashioned way. Bonuses anyone? :blink:
It is Obivous that USAirways CAN NOT be involved in Any Major Transaction with the Labor issues we have. Heck we havent even completed the last Merger between America West and USAirways. Lets see if Tempe places the Labor issues on a Fast Track to completion.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
Being retired as 737NG's arrive - 254 on 3/30/2010 with another retired in April before the quarterly report came out. I swear I've read somewhere that AA was down to less than 200 operating MD80's, but I'm too lazy to go digging now
All retired
15 between 22 and 24.5 years old, then they switched to -300's (58 of those) which are as little as 8 years old. US' are all at least 17 years old.
So merging with US would add 3 fleet types - A320 family, A330, E190 (they might like those but certainly have not ordered anything in the E190 to A332 size), add a few more old airplanes to the 757/67 fleet, and maybe eliminate 1 fleet type if he A320's replaced the MD80's, a net gain of 2 fleet types. The 737-300/400 (all old) could either be flown as common with the 737NG's, a separate fleet, or eliminated. Other than the possibility of getting rid of the MD80's a lot quicker and getting the E190's (if AA wanted a fleet type that size) what do they really get fleet-wise for buying US?
Jim
I hope US looks inward and focuses top down on it's own issues before attempting another ill-fated stab at consolidation. First and foremost, this pilot seniority integration issue has to be resolved. I don't know how much, if any, influence management has toward brokering a resolution, or if it really wants to, but this dispute is definitely slowing this company down. As one who is not in the pilot work group I don't feel that it's appropriate for me to weigh in too heavily on this ongoing dispute other than to say that as a member of one of many work groups that work for this company, and that has a stake in the future of this company as a going concern, the time has long come to put this acrimonious seniority integration battle in our corporate rear view mirror. Some pilots will tell other work groups to mind their business, but obviously this impasse is the business of every man or woman who punches a clock in this company.
As I have digested the broad outline of the dispute I can see both sides. As an east employee, I have worked with pilots who are frustrated with the whole process and who do not exempt their union leadership of culpability in this fiasco. I also know first hand of the sacrifices that our pilots and the rest of us have made to keep this company in business. At the end of the day, we may no longer have our pay, benefits, work rules and pensions, but as the dusk prevails and we come to find that we no longer have our seniority which is the only currency that lends itself to a relatively bearable existence in this industry in these times, then it's only natural to fight as long and as hard as we can to maintain what is left of that currency. But to fight to the death? When I think of the consequences to all involved it's not worth it.
If, and once the pilot issue is resolved then I hope we focus on delivering a good product. It would be great if management focused on raising morale and rededicated itself to the internal customer. It's no secret: The happier we are the happier our external customer is. The external customer is really pulling for us because they know that when we feel that Tempe is behind us then it'll make their journey that much better. There obviously has been some positives in terms of improving our customer service metrics. But we need to do more. We have to focus more on on what makes us more attractive to the customer as opposed to what makes us more attractive to a potential merger partner. If we can accomplish that in action and in perception, then I believe the rest will take care of itself.
Let's face it folks: If we don't already know it then we need to realize that the rest of the industry wants us to fail. It was no secret that Delta at one time based their convalescence on our demise. It has been mentioned more than once that the best thing for the industry is if we shriveled up and died. Our competitors don't want us as people, but they want our assets as a company. We all have airline friends in other companies who love and care for us. And if we go under--and lose our seniority--they'll do what they can for us to get on with their companies to maintain our careers if we so desire. But we also know they won't be losing sleep if we tank. It's the nature of the beast. Long before United and Continental got together UA coveted our assets. We still have a valuable product. And great people executing this product from east to west. It's US vs. them now. And I don't mean east vs. west. We all need to hunker down and develop a bunker mentality to do what we have to do to not just survive, but more importantly to thrive. That to me is our mission as employees of this company.
We are a small airline now. We have to get stronger, bigger and better. We have to put our best foot forward from top to bottom. If we do so and things don't work out, then we all can hold our heads up and say we fought a helluva fight. Pulling together as a company will go a long ways toward ensuring our long term survival. Pulling against each other will hasten our demise. I hope before Tempe attempts to consolidate again elsewhere, that it leads an effort to fully consolidate right here.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
The BOD is accountable to the shareholders. Who owns the majority of US stock? Institutional investors and mutual funds own 79% and care about one thing and one thing only - a profit on their investment and preferably sooner rather than later. The don't care about US per se - the airline, the employees, the long term future. All they care about is their investment making a profit and if a merger will provide that profit they're happy.
Jim
wopr21
Senior
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2004
- Messages
- 260
- Reaction score
- 26
I agree whatever can make them a profit. They have a big dilemma right now ...keep pilots fighting each other to keep wages low, or merge to reduce costs.
As long as the pilots are in litigation they can delay a merger because there is no need.
cheers
wopr
:unsure:
This fleet type discussion I believe is moot Airbus or Boeing, doesn't matter. When a plane out lives its usefullness, its replaced. There are now A320's and 330's flying in Delta colors.. Who'd a thought that a few years ago huh? Now United will have both types in its fleet as well, with A350's on order to boot. So for AA to inherit some Buses to me is not totally far fetched.
Similar threads
- Locked
