Who Is To Blame?

[BlackOps]

The CEL MAA pilots lack any solid, concrete language that flows them back to their previous Group carriers. The CEL pilots trusted their MEC chairmen to make sure they were protected (or the MEC chairmen had a responsibility to protect them). Unfortunately, such language does not exist. If MAA goes to Republic, the J4J pilots go with the airplanes and the the CEL pilots are terminated (not furloughed because they have no rights at Republic or anywhere else for that matter). So who is to blame? Who should have been minding the store on behalf of their brother and sister pilots?

The MEC chairmen of ALG and PDT who failed to protect those they represented.

Nice work.

 

[Rico]

If MAA goes to Republic, the J4J pilots go with the airplanes and the the CEL pilots are terminated (not furloughed because they have no rights at Republic or anywhere else for that matter)

Ahhh, sez who...?

After MDA is sold, the Aircraft wil be transfered to Republic at 3 Aircraft/Mo or so according to the court documents. Meaning that MDA will not disappear overnight. rather it will instead but more like the process ALG went through as those aircraft were parked/transferred into PDT.

As for "rights" at Republic, the exact details remain to be seen. But "worse case" every MDA pilot (former CEL or former APL) would have first crack at all the JFJ E-170 positions at Republic, and that is if they go over with the aircraft now or come over later on as future positions are created by the planned growth. Since the court documents call for a large amount of growth, it is assumed (especially with attrition) that worse case ever single MDA pilot that wants to work at republic can do so eventually.

As it is still in contention if this is only an asset sale or a full purchase of control over MDA, you could see 100% of the MDA pilots go with the MDA planes right off. ALPA and the Company are still working that out. And from Republic's point of view, they might very well welcome all of the MDA employees they can get their hands on right now...

Where did you get the idea we would/could be terminated anyways...? We are not unrepresented, just under represented at MDA. If I cannot transfer to an open position at Republic, nor hold a position anymore at MDA I will simply be furloughed... Not fired. And MDA pilots that are furloughed are placed onto the APL list (per LOA 91). Should be able to bid then like any other APL pilot for any open/backfill JFJ postions with CHQ, Mesa (if they remain), and PSA...

 

[jimntx]

Ahhh, sez who...?

Where did you get the idea we would/could be terminated anyways...? We are not unrepresented, just under represented at MDA. If I cannot transfer to an open position at Republic, nor hold a position anymore at MDA I will simply be furloughed... Not fired. And MDA pilots that are furloughed are placed onto the APL list (per LOA 91). Should be able to bid then like any other APL pilot for any open/backfill JFJ postions with CHQ, Mesa (if they remain), and PSA...

[post="268947"][/post]​

Well, sez your hero, USA320pilot. According to his posting on another thread, if MDA is sold as part of a successful merger with AWA, MDA pilots will have neither recall nor furlough rights at the "new" company--particularly if a holding company is formed that receives the assets of both airlines.

 

[BlackOps]

>>If I cannot transfer to an open position at Republic, nor hold a position anymore at MDA I will simply be furloughed... Not fired. And MDA pilots that are furloughed are placed onto the APL list (per LOA 91). Should be able to bid then like any other APL pilot for any open/backfill JFJ postions with CHQ, Mesa (if they remain), and PSA...<<

First, only the J4J pilots qualify for a job at Republic. Not CEL pilots. When the assets are simply sold to Republic, (as Jerry Glass has said on the record), CEL pilots will have no furlough rights, because MDA will cease to exist. You cannot be furloughed from an airline that does not exist.

On the subject of open/backfill, put yourself in the company's shoes for a moment. Would you agree to accepting MAA refugees back onto your property at their Group seniority pay rates when you can simply continue to staff your airline with 500 hour recruits from the University of North Dakota? Word has it that PDT is hiring and training 15 such new hires a month.

Who is going to take the time to stand up for CEL pilots? The mainline MEC? I don't think so.

The fact remains that the MEC chairmen at PDT and ALG didn't make sure they had clear, concise language that would facilitate the return of CEL pilots should things go south, as they have. One of the chairmen actually went to MAA, and it appears that not only did he take a 50% pay hit to come to MAA, but his not making absolutely sure there was contract language he could fall back on, he has slit his own throat.

The save a buck company and the save a buck mainline MEC cannot be counted upon to come to the CEL pilots' rescue. Helping the CEL guys and gals would take time and money... both of which are in short supply.

That is reality. In the words of Norm Peterson of Cheers fame:

It's a dog-eat-dog world....and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear!'

 

[Rico]

First, only the J4J pilots qualify for a job at Republic. Not CEL pilots. When the assets are simply sold to Republic, (as Jerry Glass has said on the record), CEL pilots will have no furlough rights, because MDA will cease to exist.

Please show where he said "on the record" that we will have no furlough rights. And WTF do you get the idea that none of the CEL pilots qualify for a Republic job. That has never been said either.

Show me where these supposed "policies" are...

On the subject of open/backfill, put yourself in the company's shoes for a moment. Would you agree to accepting MAA refugees back onto your property at their Group seniority pay rates when you can simply continue to staff your airline with 500 hour recruits from the University of North Dakota? Word has it that PDT is hiring and training 15 such new hires a month.

So...? Even IF PDT remains a wholly owned participating carrier, it obviously remains to be negotiated exactly how a return to PDT would occur... But that is not what i was talking about.

I said open and backfill JFJ positions at Mesa/CHQ/PSA and soon Republic "Mr. Not Paying Attention", not PDT. BTW PSA will remain a JFJ carrier with the jets allowed under the JFJ provisions if they are sold or not...

Who is going to take the time to stand up for CEL pilots? The mainline MEC? I don't think so.

We will stand up for ourselves.

The fact remains that the MEC chairmen at PDT and ALG didn't make sure they had clear, concise language that would facilitate the return of CEL pilots should things go south, as they have. One of the chairmen actually went to MAA, and it appears that not only did he take a 50% pay hit to come to MAA, but his not making absolutely sure there was contract language he could fall back on, he has slit his own throat.

The one you speak of had little to do with it, rather it was the egotistic bombast MEC Chair before him (that has now become the "voice of PDT") that fought so hard against any deal, that he wasted precious time and leverage that could have been used to work out all the details on the deal we did get.

THATS the guy at fault. God help the PDT pilots if they make the mistake of letting him run the show again...

Did you know he later on begged for a chance to come to MDA rather than go to PDT... That sez it all in my book

Although he will never admit it, he knows he was wrong, and he knows that he has nothing to show for all of the trouble he caused. (Both the ALG guys at MDA and PDT).

The save a buck company and the save a buck mainline MEC cannot be counted upon to come to the CEL pilots' rescue. Helping the CEL guys and gals would take time and money... both of which are in short supply

Help how? I fail to understand your logic sport... We either get a job at Republic now with the transfer, or later when the new positions caused by growth/attrition come open there. It is not a cost adverse thing to either the Company nor Republic...

When Metrojet ceased to exist, the pilots there were not "fired", they were placed upon furlough, just like the MDA pilots will ALL have to be as the company is transferred over to Republic as it ceases to exist. I fail to see why you think those who WERE on the CEL and now at MDA will be fired, as opposed to simply furloughed (like those that bid over) if they are not able to bid into the new positions at Republic...

That makes no sense.

Look, I know damn well that things are in flux, and nothing is rock solid. But you are coming up with supposed policies when not one thing has been decided yet. I would rather go with what is in writing now, and not freak out rather than run around screaming like an idiot because you say the sky is falling...