6-month Personal Leaves of Absence Proffered

[Maark767]

I do have a degree and the people coming back (TW) are not at the bottom in pay, AA recognized their years of service in the inquisition....err acquisition.

You might know this.... Can you tell me why American Airlines management stapled the ticket agents to the bottom of the seniority list in this department ?
You would think that since AA had the ability to recognize their years of svc. that AA would have granted them something other than the bottom of the list.
This is just an example of how AA management really works.... Dont be fooled in thinking that management is on your side... THER ARE NOT FOR THE EMPLOYEES. The only one on your side is APFA... Been here many years and can tell you from experience AA will slam the door in your face and then smile back at you.

 

[Maark767]

From what I understand on the APFA bulletin I received yesterday leave takers will lose 4 days of occupational seniority. That might not seem like much, but I can think of several times in my career when one or two numbers meant a lot. I flew until Oct 2009 instead of getting furloughed in April because of about six numbers and initially got LGA as a base when recalled in 2007 by about four numbers.

Still, there will be those who take them and I'd much rather see people on the street voluntarily than the other way around. 300 is 1.7% of the workforce and attrition will take care of about 3/4 of that many in six months.

MK

Good point, thanks for the a different view on this.

 

[jimntx]

Still, there will be those who take them and I'd much rather see people on the street voluntarily than the other way around. 300 is 1.7% of the workforce and attrition will take care of about 3/4 of that many in six months.

MK

There might even be more retirement attrition than that. I was talking with someone at DFW that works with retirements, etc., and it seems that some of the senior fas are finally catching on to the fact that staying on is reducing their pension award amounts. We are already at the point where a maximum of 2 years of pre-RPA pay is available for pension calculation purposes. Some of them were flying only partial schedules during those years; so, that doesn´t help either.

Even though total attrition is still below "average" from previous years, the percentage of attrition that is retirements is up--over 50% so far this year.

 

[IORFA]

Yes, the pre-RPA pay is going away, but you also need to add all the additional years of service into the equation. That more than likely makes up for the difference in minimal pay loss calculation. People forget that the retirement check isn't made soley on the best 4 of 10. It also uses the total years of service into the calculation. This is a question for P. Hancock at the APFA, as I am almost sure that people are at worst even in the end.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Shame it is a "pro-offered" rather than "paid" leave of absence.

Not a bad job perk, in my opinion. I could knock out a lot of countries with six months and travel benefits.

 

[eolesen]

You might know this.... Can you tell me why American Airlines management stapled the ticket agents to the bottom of the seniority list in this department ?
You would think that since AA had the ability to recognize their years of svc. that AA would have granted them something other than the bottom of the list.
This is just an example of how AA management really works.... Dont be fooled in thinking that management is on your side... THER ARE NOT FOR THE EMPLOYEES. The only one on your side is APFA... Been here many years and can tell you from experience AA will slam the door in your face and then smile back at you.

Maark, which department are you referring to?

If you're talking about agents transferring into flight service (or ramp service, maintenance, flight), then surely you know that bidding & occupational seniority are determined by the union, not the company..

Your "example" of how management works appears to be either a total fabrication, or just sheer ignorance about how the process actually works....

In the exact opposite example of a flight attendant or fleet service clerk transferring into an agent's job, hostorically, management let them use their company date of hire for bidding seniority. Likewise for employees transferring between AA and Eagle or Eagle and AA, or employees transferring between non-union-non-management and management, or management self-downgrading into a non-union-non-management job.

There were some changes with the TWA acquisition to accommodate STL and the res centers, and in a few cases at STL & MCI, I seem to recall that nAAtive agents who were RIF'd while twAA agents kept their jobs. Someone else can correct me on this, but I don't recall any super-seniority or protection for the nAAtives. When STL downsized, essentially all of the nAAtive management folks were RIF'd as well.

 

[Maark767]

Maark, which department are you referring to?

If you're talking about agents transferring into flight service (or ramp service, maintenance, flight), then surely you know that bidding & occupational seniority are determined by the union, not the company..

Your "example" of how management works appears to be either a total fabrication, or just sheer ignorance about how the process actually works....

In the exact opposite example of a flight attendant or fleet service clerk transferring into an agent's job, hostorically, management let them use their company date of hire for bidding seniority. Likewise for employees transferring between AA and Eagle or Eagle and AA, or employees transferring between non-union-non-management and management, or management self-downgrading into a non-union-non-management job.

There were some changes with the TWA acquisition to accommodate STL and the res centers, and in a few cases at STL & MCI, I seem to recall that nAAtive agents who were RIF'd while twAA agents kept their jobs. Someone else can correct me on this, but I don't recall any super-seniority or protection for the nAAtives. When STL downsized, essentially all of the nAAtive management folks were RIF'd as well.

Eolesen,
No , I was talking about when AA bought TWA, AA management had the ability to slot the agents in and give them seniority . They did the opposite and stapled them to the bottom. It has nothing to do with employees transferring from one dept to another within American. I was trying to point out that everyone blames APFA for stapling the F/As to the bottom and calls the union the bad guy. Some people braise AA and thinks that management does no wrong. Well guess what , they did staple the agents to the bottom. Go figure.

 

[eolesen]

And I'm pretty certain they did so only after the TWU and APFA stapled, Mark. I was in DCS planning at the time, and remember that being described as a measure of last resort.

 

[Hopeful]

And I'm pretty certain they did so only after the TWU and APFA stapled, Mark. I was in DCS planning at the time, and remember that being described as a measure of last resort.

No staple at the TWU. The Kasher ruling decided on 4/10/01 seniority, 25% or 100% depending where employees are based. The TWA folks did retain their TWA seniority for vacation bidding.

 

[eolesen]

Yes, and if you look at the way that bidding seniority was implemented post-TW, you'll see agents have something quite similar to Kasher. And that's how a lot of STL nAAtive agents & CSMs wound up getting screwed in 2003.

 

[Maark767]

Yes, and if you look at the way that bidding seniority was implemented post-TW, you'll see agents have something quite similar to Kasher. And that's how a lot of STL nAAtive agents & CSMs wound up getting screwed in 2003.

I was talking about agents outside of SLT. And my point was to show that the almighty AA screwed the agents. They gave them no seniority . Some people think AA does no wrong..... Thats my point.

 

[eolesen]

They gave them no seniority . Some people think AA does no wrong..... Thats my point.

If you need to continually dig up the bones of TW to "prove your point" I guess that probably says enough. And in my eyes, AA did do the right thing. They chose to recognize who chose to go to work for AA over those who chose to work for competitor prior to January 2001.

 

[kirkpatrick]

The TWA folks did retain their TWA seniority for vacation bidding.

Minor nit to pick, at least for the FA group. We retained our company seniority for vacation accrual, so I (for example) have the full twenty-eight days vacation time if I work a full year. The vacation itself is bid according to occupational seniority.

MK

 

[TWskyliner]

I was talking about agents outside of SLT. And my point was to show that the almighty AA screwed the agents. They gave them no seniority . Some people think AA does no wrong..... Thats my point.

So you think that AA screwed the agents by giving them no seniority. Interesting how when you aren't affected, "the screwing" is wrong. So what's worse the company screwing you (kind of expected) or your fellow union"brothers and sisters," who keep doing it over and over (staple, giving away furlough pay, reinterpreting the fence, voting, etc.)and then castigating you for having the gall to stand up against them. I say wrong is wrong period, brother...

 

[jersey777]

So you think that AA screwed the agents by giving them no seniority. Interesting how when you aren't affected, "the screwing" is wrong. So what's worse the company screwing you (kind of expected) or your fellow union"brothers and sisters," who keep doing it over and over (staple, giving away furlough pay, reinterpreting the fence, voting, etc.)and then castigating you for having the gall to stand up against them. I say wrong is wrong period, brother...

I don't think it is wrong. My union protected my seniority here at AA. If you thought you would waltz in here and steal my seniority....I guess YOU were wrong.