A Hub Once More

[WestCoastGuy]

All true, to bad they don't have enough o&d for a hub to make any MONEY!!! Remember, this is a BUSINESS and PIT lost MONEY! -Cape

[post="241630"][/post]​

And if you look at the downline stations from PHL, most of the money PHL takes in the front door is given away once the customers reach their final destination MINUS their bags, after they've been delayed and misconnected due to constantly LATE departures from PHL, and horrible customer comments about the sorry state of affairs in PHL. Many regulars now REFUSE to take a connecting flight thru PHL and can not tollerate the thought of checking their bags. The Christmas bag fiasco at PHL cost this little station here over $100,000 in baggage charges. Multiply that across the system and it comes to some serious money. And thats just the start......

 

[usairways85]

I fail to see how a weather incident like this is the sign of how poorly PHL is run. By late yesterday afternoon PHL had already seen 10 inches of snow in probably less than 10 hours that's more than an inch an hour at some points. PIT did not see weather nearly as bad. PHL will also see strong winds all afternoon with the wind chill below zero for the most part of the day.

And i can't stand people bringing continually bring up Philly delays and whatnot even when the weather is not that bad. How many times do people from PHL have to tell you, it's not completely US' fault, it's not completely the design of PHL, and it's not the people that work at PHL....it's also the FAA. Whenever there are problems in DC or NYC the FAA expands their perimeters only to make PHL's perimeter even smaller forcing them to spread out planes regardless the weather in PHL.

As stated earlier when do airlines take much consideration into weather when picking a hub of focus city. Take BOS for instance, they are supposed to get at least 30 inches and have been closed since yesterday, does that keep airlines out? How about management finally gets these baggage problems fixed in PHL along with the rolling of the hub soon and maybe PHL can get on the road to be a more efficient hub.

 

[AP Tech]

I think managment had their choice when they chose Phl as a hub, so they deserve it all.....congestion, weather, location, expansion constraints, pissed off employee's!!!!!

 

[Dog Wonder]

Over 200 flights cancelled today (Sunday) out of PHL so far. No inbounds from at least 1100 until 1500 due to ramp conditions.

 

[PITbull]

Bear,

Pittsburgh had 7 inches of snow that fell yesterday. WE had chill factors with snow turning into rain and freezing..

MY POINT: PIT did not shut down, and all 4 runways were open ALL DAY YESTERDAY!

Flights that were to land in PHL were DIVERTED TO PIT. That is how PHL and USAirways was spared from much more losses.

Weather is weather. The point being is that an airline must have a "plan B" in order to continue to operate, specifically on the east coast.

YOU NEEDE TWO HUBS TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY FROM THE EAST COAST.

fOR THE SAME REASONS IT WORKED OUT YESTERDAY; AND NOT OVER CHRISTMAS.

The company finally had an epiphany, and went to a "plan B".

 

[RowUnderDCA]

YOU NEEDE TWO HUBS TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY FROM THE EAST COAST.

[post="241672"][/post]​

WHAT? That's rediculous. What WONT you say? You and Condileeza.

 

[Bear96]

Bear,

Pittsburgh had 7 inches of snow that fell yesterday.  WE had chill factors with snow turning into rain and freezing..

MY POINT:  PIT did not shut down, and all 4 runways were open ALL DAY YESTERDAY!

Are you purposely pretending not to understand my point, or are you simply incapable of understanding it?

Fine; PIT is the center of the universe; PIT can do no wrong; any airline would be crazy not to make PIT the center of their airline operations.

THAT'S IRRELEVANT TO WHAT I AM SAYING.

I'll try ONCE MORE.

It is unfair to point to the worst weather day in years at a given airport (in this case, PHL, or BOS, or any one of the cities that REALLY had bad weather this weekend (and PIT is not one of those)), and use that as the basis to say, "See how messed up they are there?"

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PIT. PIT IS VALHALLA. NIRVANA. FINE. WHATEVER.

Next week, if PIT has 30 inches of snow in one day and shuts down for an hour (despite your theory that PIT NEVER shuts down), would it be fair to say, "See what a messed up airport PIT is?" No.

YOU NEEDE TWO HUBS TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY FROM THE EAST COAST.

That's just silly. And anyways, are you saying that if PIT were U's only hub, they wouldn't be able to operate efficiently?

 

[SpinDoc]

They will make Phl work no matter what the cost!!!!! After all U management just has to return to the employee "giveback" bank. :down:

[post="241537"][/post]​

Along these lines, can anyone hazard a
guess as to why US continues to hold onto
PHL as the main hub, when the operations
in PHL are poor on a good day? Any increase
in O&D traffic or yield is worthless when you
lose millions per day on delayed and
cancelled flights, and on trying to match
WN fares.

It really is time for the company to finally
admit they made a huge mistake in PHL
and bring PIT back to hub status. Of course,
the people within US who made the decision
to leave PIT will have egg on their face, but
it's time for them to own up to their error.

 

[usairways85]

Before you say US went to plan B for the weekend, i'd like to know if the airline actually tried to divert the planes to PIT and then reroute people to their final destinations on PIT flts. If they did, then i believe they made the best out of the situation. However, if they merely just diverted the planes and didn't do much once the planes were in PIT given that PIT is another hub/focus city then i'd say they didn't have much of a backup plan

 

[usairways85]

Well if you feel that US should just finally dump PHL and go back to PIT, then they mise well get rid of the 330's and some of the 762's since neither PIT nor CLT can handle a fraction of the transatlantic traffic that PHL does. Along the same lines PIT won't do nearly as well as PHL does with the caribbean traffic, and you can only route so much through CLT so there goes a little less than half your caribbean traffic.

Also US will be competing with WN in PIT soon so your reasoning that US should drop PHL because of WN contradicts yourself.

 

[SpinDoc]

Well if you feel that US should just finally dump PHL and go back to PIT, then they mise well get rid of the 330's and some of the 762's since neither PIT nor CLT can handle a fraction of the transatlantic traffic that PHL does. Along the same lines PIT won't do nearly as well as PHL does with the caribbean traffic, and you can only route so much through CLT so there goes a little less than half your caribbean traffic.

Also US will be competing with WN in PIT soon so your reasoning that US should drop PHL because of WN contradicts yourself.

[post="241733"][/post]​

An airline hub is by definition a place
where many planes arrive full of
passengers and those customers transfer
to other flights. In the true sense of the
word, PIT is a much better hub than
PHL because there are rarely any
operational problems that impede
the connecting process. Passengers
are much more likely to get to PIT
when they are scheduled to and are
much more likely to depart on time
to their destination.

Why would US have to get rid of
A330's and 767-200's if they were
funneling all of their transatlantic
customers through PIT as opposed
to PHL? The planes would be full
just as they are in PHL if the
schedules were nominal. You can
try to justify anything you want
with PHL, but in the end, PIT is a
much more efficient HUB and costs
the company a lot less in operational
problems. The problem with PIT is
that the company never really tried
to hub it the same way they did PHL.
If they had tried it, the costs they
whined about would have been
spread across a larger number of
flights and would have been
negligible in the long run. Herein
lies the problem, the company put
their eggs in one basket (PHL) and
didn't even try to make it work in
PIT.

PHL is a POS as an airport, and you
can't polish a turd, because in the
end, you will only have a shiny turd
and nothing else.

 

[700UW]

Because the PHL Transatlantic is originating traffic, not connecting traffic. And PHL is still the #1 making city US flies out of.

 

[usairways85]

Thank you 700UW, at PIT even if US tried the combination of connecting and originating traffic would not even be close to what it is at PHL. My reasoning behind getting rid of the widebodies is simply because US wouldn't be able to fill the aircraft to some of the destinations they fly from PHL. PIT and CLT could handle maybe 3 transatlantic flights each, so what's the point in keeping all the widebodies.

700UW: Regarding US and PIT this weekend, did they make a reasonable effort to try to reroute people on flights from PIT once their PHL bound flights were diverted there? I'd be happy if they did, showing that they made an effort to maintain customer satisfaction dispite the problems they faced in PHL as well as LGA, and BOS for that matter.

 

[SpinDoc]

Because the PHL Transatlantic is originating traffic, not connecting traffic. And PHL is still the #1 making city US flies out of.

[post="241742"][/post]​

Agreed that PHL has more originating traffic,
but what is stopping US from "collecting"
passengers in PIT as a hub, and then making
a stop to pick up PHL originating traffic? BA
used to do it all the time with their LGW-PIT
flights. They would fly LGW-PIT, load up, and
make a stop at JFK on the way back to
LGW to pick up the originating people from
the NYC area. They used a freaking 747-200
for crying out loud.

No matter how you look at it, PHL is a dismal
place to have a hub. Operationally, it could
kill the company, but you can't convince the
numb nuts in CCY of this.

 

[700UW]

The route authorties are granted from PHL, not PIT.

And it is not very cost effective to fly a 767 or a A330 from PIT to PHL and then there is security check issues to be completed.