A "rare Thumbs Up" From Me !

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

If all of my posts regarding DAL, over the years, either here on US Aviation, or Plane Business.com, were added up, perhaps 80+% would have been of the "negative" nature, due in large part to the large number of non-Union workers.

BUT,

In all fairess, it MUST be said, that DL, and "Gerry' are due a large "attaboy", simply because they REFUSE to go running into BK, WITHOUT A FIGHT, and to that I say, "DL you've got BIG ONES" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So for what It's worth, I respect you, and I wish ALL of you DL people(YES, YOU too World Traveler) ALL the best wishes, and good luck, in the days, weeks, months, and years ahead !!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[FWAAA]

I have to agree with NHBB. DL is trying to avoid enriching the lawyers, accountants, bankers and consultants who are becoming rich by suckling on UAL and USAir. And anytime those parasites are cut out of the largesse, it's a good thing. Leaves more for the employees and creditors.

People are fooling themselves if they think the UAL employees aren't financing all those costs at UAL.

 

[Cosmo]

People are fooling themselves if they think the UAL employees aren't financing all those costs at UAL.

While the UAL employees are certainly making a major contribution to those costs, they are not alone. Think about the folks who hold $8.7 billion in UAL debt that will be "discharged", according to the carrier's POR. Plus the aircraft lessors that will take a haircut on the rental amounts owed to them in the future. So there are plenty of contributors to the well-being of the lawyers, accountants, bankers, etc., in the UAL bankruptcy case, just as there will be if Delta and/or Northwest follow UAL's footsteps into Chapter 11.

 

[Vikedog64]

If all of my posts regarding DAL, over the years, either here on US Aviation, or Plane Business.com, were added up, perhaps 80+% would have been of the "negative" nature, due in large part to the large number of non-Union workers.

BUT,

In all fairess, it MUST be said, that DL, and "Gerry' are due a large "attaboy", simply because they REFUSE to go running into BK, WITHOUT A FIGHT, and to that I say, "DL you've got BIG ONES" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So for what It's worth, I respect you, and I wish ALL of you DL people(YES, YOU too World Traveler) ALL the best wishes, and good luck, in the days, weeks, months, and years ahead !!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

[post="297482"][/post]​

While it may be futile, DAL is pulling out all the stops to avoid chapter 11. I still think it may be possible , by the grace of God. It would have been a h-ll of alot easier if UAL hadn't set the bar so low...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Delta is exerting a huge amount of effort to stay out of bankruptcy but remember that all of these changes are exactly what was needed to transform their business whether they go into BK or not. At the very least, they have a huge head start going into BK but at best they might be able to convince some of their lenders to restructure some of their debt.

Make no mistake, UA employees have born the vast majority of the cost cuts. Reducing debt strengthens UAL's balance sheet but UAL has not been paying most of their unsecured debt during bankruptcy and that is the group that is taking the biggest hit in their POR.

UAL's plan of reorganization actually could play very well into DL's attempts to restructure its debt. By seeing that UAL unsecured creditors are only proposed to get 4-7% of the value of their debt and then only in stock - and that follows US which is giving only 17% of the value of their stock -, DL unsecured debt holders may realize that without their help - along with help from the government on pensions - a bankruptcy filing is inevitable. DL is still playing a high risk game but ultimately they are doing now exactly what would be done in bankruptcy but would cost alot more money and take alot more time. I don't know if that is what DL is attempting to do but the fact that they keep taking steps to keep themselves out of BK indicates they are not ready to throw in the towel. They also need equity financing which they could possibly get now but which will likely be subjected to creditor claims in BK. If they succeed, it will probably go down as one of the biggest corporate turnarounds w/o a BK filing. While there is no assurance at all that they will succeed, no one wins in BK and we should all hope they are able to restructure themselves out of BK.

 

[FWAAA]

While the UAL employees are certainly making a major contribution to those costs, they are not alone. Think about the folks who hold $8.7 billion in UAL debt that will be "discharged", according to the carrier's POR. Plus the aircraft lessors that will take a haircut on the rental amounts owed to them in the future. So there are plenty of contributors to the well-being of the lawyers, accountants, bankers, etc., in the UAL bankruptcy case, just as there will be if Delta and/or Northwest follow UAL's footsteps into Chapter 11.

[post="297574"][/post]​

You are correct. My post was poorly written. UAL employees have not been the sole payors of those expenses. My use of the word "all" was to capture my earlier list of various expenses, not to say that employees have been the exclusive payors. Of course the creditors have had to chip in as well.

Still, as AA demonstrated, large paycuts are possible without enriching the BK parasites. Bob Owens and others claim that AA's nonbankruptcy concessions are saving AA more money than UAL's two rounds of BK concessions. If they are correct, AA has gotten more from its employees without the expense of Ch 11. Of course, AA may not have trimmed its leases and LT airplane debt as successfully as has UAL. Ch 11 often permits debtors to cut large amounts of debt.

 

[Fly]

I don't know if that is what DL is attempting to do but the fact that they keep taking steps to keep themselves out of BK indicates they are not ready to throw in the towel.

[post="297867"][/post]​

Perhaps they are not able to obtain DIP financing and MUST avoid BK.
Ch 7 vs Ch 11.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Fly,
That is possible but Comair has been valued at about $800M and the cuts that have been announced don't significantly reduce its value. Further, DIP financing is the highest priority and is rarely not given, even though Delta has warned that obtaining DIP financing is not assured - and it isn't for any company. You'll recall that Delta has used hyperbole throughout its reorganization process and obtained much of what it needed last year because of the strength of its warnings. It is almost certain that creditors of all kinds would assist Delta even more if it is likely that DL would be forced to liquidate. DL has also repeatedly said that it places the highest priority on restructuring outside of bankruptcy.

Can you provide an example of an airline that proceeded directly to chapter 7 without going through chapter 11? US and TW were both able to file Chapter 11 and reorganize twice - and there may be others.


And by the way, NHBB, your credibility in my mind went up by being able to contribute a positive post. There are plenty of fear mongers on this board. Even though I have been very critical of UA for years, I have given them credit for what they have done recently. If we are to be viewed with any credibility, we have to recognize the accomplishments of all airlines. Maybe DL isn't quite ready to let AA force NW to liquidate.

 

[marco90821]

What the hell is wrong with non-union workers jackass?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

What the hell is wrong with non-union workers jackass?

[post="297912"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Uh, nothing marco90821,

except that when your company wants their BUTT kissed, you folks line up, ready to "plant a HUGE SMOOCH, on their CHEEKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Different strokes, for DIFFERENT folks" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't think unionized labor can claim that their membership dues have saved them from anything that wasn't already coming to them. Airlines that are relatively comfortable today are that way because their managements recognized the changes that were coming to the airline industry and jumped in quickly to tackle the problems.

 

[skyflyr69]

put a fork in them. they are toast.