AFW FIASCO AT BAY 4

[Ian]

A/C 350 is back in service.

 

[skipfly]

Wow, that was not too long. Too bad they canned the left seat guy, that does not fix any problem that led to this. But, you can't expect too much from management at AFW. I am sure the admiral feels better though. :down:

 

[777 fixer]

Wow, that was not too long. Too bad they canned the left seat guy, that does not fix any problem that led to this. But, you can't expect too much from management at AFW. I am sure the admiral feels better though. :down:

Aside from the guy in the l/h seat getting fired was there any other disciplinary action taken?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Aside from the guy in the l/h seat getting fired was there any other disciplinary action taken?

Nothing on the management side, but it's still early for the promotions that will come from this.

 

[skipfly]

The way I hear it the ground guy was dealt with thru ASAP and the other two were found not at fault. But, once again piss poor management has no penalties.

 

[eolesen]

How, pray tell, did management have any direct role in this particular accident? I doubt you need a production manager standing in the cockpit watching the guy pull the gear lever, and they certainly weren't looking over the shoulder of the guys responsible for pinning the gear. If they had been, and nothing went wront, you'd be grieving the oversight as harassment...

AA didn't stop buying gear pins, and I'm pretty sure the GPM says to pin the gear. This was a simple case of lack of compliance with long established process and procedure.

 

[skipfly]

It is clear that you are not in the loop on what transpired, so let me fill you in on what I can. I will concede that a GPM procedure was in place for the gear pins. However, for 5 or 6 years management has told the tow crews to put in the gear pins after getting in the hangar. This after a plane took off with gear pins installed. No way around that, management allowed and even condoned this behavior for years. No workcard was ever issued to this AC for the test they were doing, again that is management. If a card was issued, maybe the guy installing the pins would have not signed that line until after they were in. They left seat guy never did that check before and when telling the ground guy to put the pins in, didn't even know why. Who is in charge of training? Management! There were tons of opportunities to avoid this, some were managements and some were AMT's. Bottom line is that the AMT paid the price and once again management is not held accountable for doing their job, managing the operation.

 

[eolesen]

Practice and procedure can vary, yes, but there are some basics you can't deviate from... Pinning the gear is right up with chocking the gear...

You can blame management just because they're management, but I still don't see why you'd fire a supervisor simply because one of their reports wasn't following what sounds like several different safety procedures. Reprimand? Sure. Termination? It ain't gonna stick if he wasn't giving an order to ignore procedures or told someone unqualified to go do the test.

Maybe things have changed since I left, but management rarely stepped out of the office, and when they did, it was to tell the cc's what needed to be done. Last I knew, the planners wrote up the work cards, and the CC assigned the cards to the crew. No card, no work.

 

[skipfly]

Practice and procedure can vary, yes, but there are some basics you can't deviate from... Pinning the gear is right up with chocking the gear...

You can blame management just because they're management, but I still don't see why you'd fire a supervisor simply because one of their reports wasn't following what sounds like several different safety procedures. Reprimand? Sure. Termination? It ain't gonna stick if he wasn't giving an order to ignore procedures or told someone unqualified to go do the test.

Maybe things have changed since I left, but management rarely stepped out of the office, and when they did, it was to tell the cc's what needed to be done. Last I knew, the planners wrote up the work cards, and the CC assigned the cards to the crew. No card, no work.

You are correct in one statement, many things have changed since you left. I do not think anyone should be fired in this mess, what would that solve? However there is more than one person who should have been held accountable. The trick is to understand why it happened and learn from it, correct it so it wont happen again.

The sad part is, if the guy in the left seat was drunk, he would have kept his job. Firing a 20 plus year CC with a perfect record simply adds un-needed cost to this whole thing. But, it made someone feel better.

 

[Jager]

The word I got was the left seat guy had a history.. Like running a 777 into the hangar....

 

[Hopeful]

It is no secret of my feelings about managment. But I call them as I see them. The mechanics are responsible for failure to install the gear pins. To say that managment condones ignoring GPM and MM proicedures is a pretty poor excuse..This kind of reminds me of a parent telling a child "If someone told you to jump of the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it because they told you to?"

 

[Thomas Paine]

Aside from the guy in the l/h seat getting fired was there any other disciplinary action taken?

Yes they flogged him first, satisfied?

 

[skipfly]

The word I got was the left seat guy had a history.. Like running a 777 into the hangar....

I do not think that is accurate info.

 

[skipfly]

It is no secret of my feelings about managment. But I call them as I see them. The mechanics are responsible for failure to install the gear pins. To say that managment condones ignoring GPM and MM proicedures is a pretty poor excuse..This kind of reminds me of a parent telling a child "If someone told you to jump of the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it because they told you to?"

In many cases I would tend to agree, in this case I do not. There are too many times where management lets stuff go to just get it done. Then, when something bad happens, they frag whoever the unfortunate one who is involved. That is not how to run a railroad, no harm no foul is the typical approach.

I know I have had managers tell me, just get it done and on the gate. If all went well they were happy, if something went wrong, well then the witch hunt began. Either way a procedure may have not been followed, but no penalties if it went good.

So, please don't take what I said as an excuse for an AMT not following the rules, that is not my intent. But, as my superior who can put pressure on me and my everyday work life, management has an obligation to adhere to and enforce policy and procedures. Not just when something goes wrong. So, there are cases when management promotes or condones these actions they should be accountable too.

 

[Bob Owens]

Very well said Skipfly.