AMFA National Officers to Visit Miami

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Seriously, do you really just make this stuff up as you go along? AMFA is waiting for CO and UA to integrate? Are you kidding me? If they wait until that happens they will have no chance at all (not that they do now). Integration means the completion of the contract and essentially a new airline with one contract. Once this happens good luck getting anyone to volunteer to get back in to an election campaign cycle. We will all be happy when this is over. You will have your unhappy mechanics who I am sure will do what they can to keep the fires stoked fr changing unions again, but they have never left and seldom get attention.

We do welcome our CO IBT brothers, but they are governed according to their contract, and we by ours. The company loves your attitude of just "bring them all in", but the costs to the company are more involved by having two separate agreements (three if you add Air Mic). We will welcome them and they will welcome us when the company gives us ONE agreement. Until then, we work within our crew, and they with theirs.

Will both groups be happy? Probably not. Nobody on the UA or CO Board of Directors bothered to ask any of us mechanics if we approved the merger. There are many CO mechanics at the most junior stations who are worried about their new placement on the seniority system. Unlike AMFA, the IBT is pushing for a simple Date of Hire seniority system which is the most popular resolution. It is not, unfortunately, the unanimous choice.

Also unfortunate, in my opinion, is that the IBT has decided to waste time and listen to the ideas and concerns of the few and less senior stations. The IBT said it would be Date of Hire, but when a few small Locals pushed back, they listened to these guys and considered the requests of different seniority integration ideas. In the end, date of hire will win out and I wish the IBT would have just came out on day one and stuck to that. This is again my opinion only, and I am sure not what the junior mechanics in Houston, Cleavland or Orlando will want to hear that. They want credit or something that would give them seniority over 20+ year UAL mechanics. Too bad. This is not WN or AMFA. Date of hire is fair!! Listening to the members is what has been adding time to the merger of the seniority lists. I am not saying that I do not want all members to be heard, just in this case it does little to change the outcome, and plenty to wast time. My peeve maybe, but every single UA mechanic I know agrees with date of hire, and almost half of the CO mechanics do as well according to the survey.

Integrating the agreements is not a function left up to the IBT alone. It involves negotiating with the company and even that is now subject to the schedule of the NMB. Since we entered in to Mediation, we no longer have the luxury of setting up our own meeting schedule.

You ask what is going to happen with the CAL pensions? To answer your question however, no; the IBT leaders are NOT telling CAL they will sacrifice their pensions. I guess we will both have to wait for the conclusion of negotiations to see how this turns out.

As far as CO hiring new mechanics? In the mechanics eyes, both sides, we do not really care who's name is on the tail. We are two separate companies and until the company advances our salaries, and increases benefits on both sides, that is how we will act. Continental is hiring off the street, United is not. I am not taking a cut in pay to start over at CO, would you?

You still did not answer my question how can you have guys on layoff at united and still have CAL hiring off the street during integration and contract negotiations.

Date of hire is good for you so are we talking company time or occupational date?
makes a big difference is some started on ramp then moved to maintenance. Or from a different group with in the maintanance group like gse or facilities before getting A&P?

Don't you think it would serve all better if they finished intergration how ever before destroying CAL contract or is the IBT planning on doing it to the CAL guys without their input? I hear that IBT wants to have the CAL pension frozen and then have them moved in the western Conf. plan of the IBT? What about that?
UAL has some type of 401K plan why is yours different than the UPS deal? Same Union, why cant you guys get what the UPS guys have? Don't tell me not same company since the pension plan how ever it is, is run by the IBT and you must be a Teamster to get in.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

AMFAinMIAMI, we can all blame your babble for drawing me back in to this. WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAZY TALK?

The IBT at UAL is on no danger at all. The Pilots are finally moving forward on their contract at UAL and are doing so almost a YEAR AFTER the mechanics. For years we have been slave to the leftover crumbs of negotiations after they have finished, but the Teamsters changed the order of things. The mechanics were FIRST in negotiating an agreement and we have enjoyed our pay and benefits increase for almost a year. Negotiations for our second contract are getting underway and it is very likely the IBT will have successfully negotiated TWO contracts before the IAM even completes one. We will never go back to the IAM.

Crazy Talk?

You mean like yours?

The new Pilot TA is for the COMBINED carrier, last I checked we the mechanics still have seperate agreements. The Pilots have a TA, and minus some true real magic by the ibt they will have the first ratified COMBINED agreement. Oh and unless you're here actually suggesting the ibt will return similar numbers(UNLIKELY), we the combined mechanics will indeed be picking through the leftover crumbs of the Pilots yet again.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Seriously, do you really just make this stuff up as you go along? AMFA is waiting for CO and UA to integrate? Are you kidding me? If they wait until that happens they will have no chance at all (not that they do now). Integration means the completion of the contract and essentially a new airline with one contract. Once this happens good luck getting anyone to volunteer to get back in to an election campaign cycle. We will all be happy when this is over. You will have your unhappy mechanics who I am sure will do what they can to keep the fires stoked fr changing unions again, but they have never left and seldom get attention.

Waiting gives AMFA or the IAM no chance at all you say?

Well lets see....

When the ibt yet again fails to deliver the double vesting pensions they promised the UAL mechanics thats going to leave many unhappy ....

When the ibt fails to deliver ANY defined pension at all thats going to leave many UAL mechanics unhappy ....

When the CAL mechanics are forced to accept DOH seniority thats definately going to leave many VERY UNHAPPY ....

The ibt tried to sell us out on our medical last negotiations, if they're foolish enough to try again, thats going to anger many ....

Of course theses are just the biggies, UAL & CAL mechanics have many more issues which in all likelyhood the ibt will dismiss just as you try and do here.

I think its safe to say these are going to be VERY interesting negotiations.

 

[swamt]

My peeve maybe, but every single UA mechanic I know agrees with date of hire, and almost half of the CO mechanics do as well according to the survey.

"According to the survey?" How funny is that? I have logged into the survey and voted at least 2 dozen times, and still doing it. The survey was never protected for just the UAL and CAL mechs to log in and vote. It was wide open to everyone out here to vote. As I have already posted along time ago about this, the survey means NOTHING, as far as a ratio or input...

 

[Anomaly]

Waiting gives AMFA or the IAM no chance at all you say?

Well lets see....

When the ibt yet again fails to deliver the double vesting pensions they promised the UAL mechanics thats going to leave many unhappy ....

When the ibt fails to deliver ANY defined pension at all thats going to leave many UAL mechanics unhappy ....

When the CAL mechanics are forced to accept DOH seniority thats definately going to leave many VERY UNHAPPY ....

The ibt tried to sell us out on our medical last negotiations, if they're foolish enough to try again, thats going to anger many ....

Of course theses are just the biggies, UAL & CAL mechanics have many more issues which in all likelyhood the ibt will dismiss just as you try and do here.

I think its safe to say these are going to be VERY interesting negotiations.

You, of course, would have nothing but negative comments for this site. Makes for a better campaign. My guess is you were part of the crowd who doubted the TA as well. The very large majority of the people I work with do not share your bitterness.

Lets just wait and see, why don't we?

My guess is that the contract will be over and done and very few will care anymore.

Crazy Talk?

You mean like yours?

The new Pilot TA is for the COMBINED carrier, last I checked we the mechanics still have seperate agreements. The Pilots have a TA, and minus some true real magic by the ibt they will have the first ratified COMBINED agreement. Oh and unless you're here actually suggesting the ibt will return similar numbers(UNLIKELY), we the combined mechanics will indeed be picking through the leftover crumbs of the Pilots yet again.

Yes, the Pilots will be voting on a combined agreement, and prior to the announcement of the merger, the UA pilots group were in negotiations as were the Mechanics. Do you deny we received pay and benefit increases almost one year ago with our Teamster contract? The Pilots are still working on wages from more than 10 years ago, and until this thing passes, are still far behind other airline pilots. Mechanics have climbed to number two in passenger carriers. Nice deflection.

 

[Anomaly]

You still did not answer my question how can you have guys on layoff at united and still have CAL hiring off the street during integration and contract negotiations.

Date of hire is good for you so are we talking company time or occupational date?
makes a big difference is some started on ramp then moved to maintenance. Or from a different group with in the maintanance group like gse or facilities before getting A&P?

Don't you think it would serve all better if they finished intergration how ever before destroying CAL contract or is the IBT planning on doing it to the CAL guys without their input? I hear that IBT wants to have the CAL pension frozen and then have them moved in the western Conf. plan of the IBT? What about that?
UAL has some type of 401K plan why is yours different than the UPS deal? Same Union, why cant you guys get what the UPS guys have? Don't tell me not same company since the pension plan how ever it is, is run by the IBT and you must be a Teamster to get in.

Yes I did answer your question.

For the sake of argument, I'll address your date of hire question. If you are hired on with AA as a baggage loader in 1985, then move to mechanic, then move to a pilot, didn't you still start AA in 1985? That is your date of hire.

Company time or occupation time is different, but the date you were hired is the date you were hired. Is this good for me???

It does not matter. The courts decided a very long time ago how our seniority system will run. Last I looked, United Airlines is still the name on the side of the airplanes and the name on the front of my paycheck. This is what makes the CO mechanics argument that we should look towards another seniority merging system all that much more a wast of time. There is nothing that can be done without causing a considerable delay in negotiations and a very lengthy and expensive fight in the federal appeals court. That would be fine if the majority wanted it, but in this case, the majority, EVEN THIRD SEAT HERO, wants exactly what the Teamsters suggested in the beginning. Date of hire. Not everyone will like it, but it is fair, and a federal court mandate.

 

[Anomaly]

My peeve maybe, but every single UA mechanic I know agrees with date of hire, and almost half of the CO mechanics do as well according to the survey.

"According to the survey?" How funny is that? I have logged into the survey and voted at least 2 dozen times, and still doing it. The survey was never protected for just the UAL and CAL mechs to log in and vote. It was wide open to everyone out here to vote. As I have already posted along time ago about this, the survey means NOTHING, as far as a ratio or input...

I would expect only someone with low moral standards to interfere with another airlines seniority.

The question for the rest of us is not whether or not you could screw up the numbers, it is why would you? Why would you purposefully try to sabotage something so sacred and important as our seniority? Do you realize you are attempting to harm the few amfa supporters at UAL as well?

Careful, your true character is shining through....



By the way, the survey is still open. The results, however have been compiled days ago and no other submissions have been counted. Those that were, had been carefully screened to match the active employee number to the name, to the address of the computer in which it was sent. Not a very challenging task at all.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Yes I did answer your question.

For the sake of argument, I'll address your date of hire question. If you are hired on with AA as a baggage loader in 1985, then move to mechanic, then move to a pilot, didn't you still start AA in 1985? That is your date of hire.

Company time or occupation time is different, but the date you were hired is the date you were hired. Is this good for me???

It does not matter. The courts decided a very long time ago how our seniority system will run. Last I looked, United Airlines is still the name on the side of the airplanes and the name on the front of my paycheck. This is what makes the CO mechanics argument that we should look towards another seniority merging system all that much more a wast of time. There is nothing that can be done without causing a considerable delay in negotiations and a very lengthy and expensive fight in the federal appeals court. That would be fine if the majority wanted it, but in this case, the majority, EVEN THIRD SEAT HERO, wants exactly what the Teamsters suggested in the beginning. Date of hire. Not everyone will like it, but it is fair, and a federal court mandate.

You're right, I would want date of hire, but the ibt had absolutely nothing to do with that. Consent decree was binding on the mechanics regardless of chosen representation. What I want to know is why hasn't the ibt pulled the trigger yet?
You admit DOH is a forgone conclusion for once I agree with you, if its so clear an argument then the ibt must be in real trouble on the CAL side of the equation to keep delaying what they know is coming.

Funny thing, when the rumors of a UAL-CAL merger were being floated during the ibt campaign on UAL, Triechler the then Airline Division Director promised UAL mechanics in writing that a seniority integration would be by DOH. At the time, I thought nothing of it because I knew consent decree was binding should UAL be the surviving entity. Now I'm hearing from CAL mechanics that when the merger rumors started on their side, they were promised their seniority would be protected ie; not DOH. Looks like the ibt was playing both sides against the middle....should make the next few months interesting.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I would expect only someone with low moral standards to interfere with another airlines seniority.

The question for the rest of us is not whether or not you could screw up the numbers, it is why would you? Why would you purposefully try to sabotage something so sacred and important as our seniority? Do you realize you are attempting to harm the few amfa supporters at UAL as well?

Careful, your true character is shining through....



By the way, the survey is still open. The results, however have been compiled days ago and no other submissions have been counted. Those that were, had been carefully screened to match the active employee number to the name, to the address of the computer in which it was sent. Not a very challenging task at all.

Oh spare me!

Maybe you should be asking why the oh-so-mighty teamsters and their supposed power and resources of 1.4 million members couldn't pony up the $$$ for a legitimate survey for... "something so sacred and important as our seniority?"

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You, of course, would have nothing but negative comments for this site. Makes for a better campaign. My guess is you were part of the crowd who doubted the TA as well. The very large majority of the people I work with do not share your bitterness.

Lets just wait and see, why don't we?

My guess is that the contract will be over and done and very few will care anymore.

Bitter?

In case you forgot, we shot down the first TA.

And what did the teamsters change to swing the vote? Upped the signing bonus, failing to deliver the retro they promised, arranged a for a buyout that they didn't even negotiate the language for until AFTER the TA was ratified, and they withdrew the medical sunset language due to membership pressure...and had to give back to the company 100% sick leave pay and additional holidays amongst other things.

The ibt threw some financially starved mechanics a few pennies and wants to play it as stellar, sorry getting me back to what I making over 10 years ago is hardly adequate.

As you say...lets wait and see.

Yes, the Pilots will be voting on a combined agreement, and prior to the announcement of the merger, the UA pilots group were in negotiations as were the Mechanics. Do you deny we received pay and benefit increases almost one year ago with our Teamster contract? The Pilots are still working on wages from more than 10 years ago, and until this thing passes, are still far behind other airline pilots. Mechanics have climbed to number two in passenger carriers. Nice deflection.

No deflection at all ....

You made the claim the ibt has changed the paradigm so to speak, just because we got a contract a year ago doesn't mean a thing against the pilots TA.

You seem to think just getting there first means everything, and it doesn't.

Have you looked at the pilots TA?

Pay rate increases: 12–22 percent at 12-year rates on DOS(based on equipment), then 8.5 percent increase 1/1/2014; 3 percent increases Jan. 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thats just the money!

they get 16% into their 401k!

I haven't even mentioned their other benefits.

The full TA is available see for yourself.

Again simply getting there first means nothing, what you bring back DOES!



Anomaly, I'll wager you here and now....

My pledge to come to this site and a give full and proper credit to the ibt should they return numbers as a percentage of wages and comparable benefits in our upcoming joint agreement, that when added to our last agreement exceeds the current Pilots TA - (OUR 2 teamster agreements to ALPAs 1). You inturn must come to this site and admit you were absolutely wrong should they fail to return equivalent numbers when combined with our last agreement.

What say you?

 

[swamt]

I would expect only someone with low moral standards to interfere with another airlines seniority.

The question for the rest of us is not whether or not you could screw up the numbers, it is why would you? Why would you purposefully try to sabotage something so sacred and important as our seniority? Do you realize you are attempting to harm the few amfa supporters at UAL as well?

Careful, your true character is shining through....



By the way, the survey is still open. The results, however have been compiled days ago and no other submissions have been counted. Those that were, had been carefully screened to match the active employee number to the name, to the address of the computer in which it was sent. Not a very challenging task at all.

You are an idiot. And there you go again trying to paint something more out of one of my postings. Why you ask? I told the teamsters about this problem as well as many others that e-mailed and contacted them to fix it. They never did fix it. After notifying them they said it would be fixed within a week, I kept signing in to test it, it never got fixed. The teamsters knowing all this never fixed it, they knowingly knew that the survey was open to any and all. You wanna know why?? So they could get their way with the survey. To have their own stooges sign in for the survey, even truckers that don't work at UAL or CAL. It other words it's rigged. You can't go by a survey that's not secure. Now, you post as if I was doing this to hurt my fellow AMFA and mechanic brothers at UAL. You are so far from the truth your pathetic to even think that. I was in fact letting them know that the teamsters never tried to secure the survey so they could have anyone to sign in and have it go the way they want it to go, then they could say, hey that's what the membership wanted, when in fact it was the way the teamsters programmed it to go. Nice try once again trying to spin and twist my posting up to look bad. BTW all the survey sign ins I did was right after it came out, all within the first 2 weeks it was put out, so yes my numbers are in there.
The fact here is the teamsters were told outsiders could get into the survey and they did nothing to fix it. They knowingly held an unsecure and rigged survey. I would not trust the numbers they report by any means. I know the teamsters and I know what they will do to get their way, I would put my money on a large number of truckers were part of your survey, garrenteed...

 

[Anomaly]

You are an idiot. And there you go again trying to paint something more out of one of my postings. Why you ask? I told the teamsters about this problem as well as many others that e-mailed and contacted them to fix it. They never did fix it. After notifying them they said it would be fixed within a week, I kept signing in to test it, it never got fixed. The teamsters knowing all this never fixed it, they knowingly knew that the survey was open to any and all. You wanna know why?? So they could get their way with the survey. To have their own stooges sign in for the survey, even truckers that don't work at UAL or CAL. It other words it's rigged. You can't go by a survey that's not secure. Now, you post as if I was doing this to hurt my fellow AMFA and mechanic brothers at UAL. You are so far from the truth your pathetic to even think that. I was in fact letting them know that the teamsters never tried to secure the survey so they could have anyone to sign in and have it go the way they want it to go, then they could say, hey that's what the membership wanted, when in fact it was the way the teamsters programmed it to go. Nice try once again trying to spin and twist my posting up to look bad. BTW all the survey sign ins I did was right after it came out, all within the first 2 weeks it was put out, so yes my numbers are in there.
The fact here is the teamsters were told outsiders could get into the survey and they did nothing to fix it. They knowingly held an unsecure and rigged survey. I would not trust the numbers they report by any means. I know the teamsters and I know what they will do to get their way, I would put my money on a large number of truckers were part of your survey, garrenteed...

LMAOROTF......

This has to be the most ridicules comeback ever....

At least it did bring a very good chuckle to my day. Thanks for that.

All of us Teamsters at UAL truly do appreciate your concern, but we seriously doubt the results were fixed by truckers. Thanks again for your involvement.

 

[Anomaly]

Bitter?

The ibt threw some financially starved mechanics a few pennies and wants to play it as stellar, sorry getting me back to what I making over 10 years ago is hardly adequate.

A little more than a few pennies. At the end of January, we all received $11,500 as a signing bonus (call it what you want). For me, after taxes, it worked out to a little more than $2,500 in my 401K, and just over $6,000 in cash. On top of this UA added $742 to my 401k in contributions for this payment.

Bitter?

No deflection at all ....

You made the claim the ibt has changed the paradigm so to speak, just because we got a contract a year ago doesn't mean a thing against the pilots TA.

You seem to think just getting there first means everything, and it doesn't.


Again simply getting there first means nothing, what you bring back DOES!

Sure, getting here first does change things. It has changed plenty for all of us including you. For a year now we have received higher wages which has prevented many from falling deeper in to debt. We have needed the bump in pay and have been the only UAL group besides the executives to enjoy a wage increase.

Have you looked at the pilots TA?

Pay rate increases: 12–22 percent at 12-year rates on DOS(based on equipment), then 8.5 percent increase 1/1/2014; 3 percent increases Jan. 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thats just the money!

they get 16% into their 401k!

I haven't even mentioned their other benefits.

The full TA is available see for yourself.

Did you look at our increases we received a year ago?

Wage increase

Signing Bonus of $11,500.00

Early-Out Program based on maximum of $75,000.00

Moving expenses now spelled out with $12,000 cap

Increase in line premium to $0.40 effective DOR, $0.50 effective 7/1/2012

Increase in longevity pay to maximum $1.00 after 12 years

Increase in shift pay, swing shift $0.51; midnight shift $0.58 (Leads = $0.54 and $0.61)

Per diem: $1.95 Domestic/$2.50 International

Increase in license pay

Welder / Machinist / Flamespray / Plater / Plant Maintenance Machine Repair Technician premium at $4.25 per hour

Lead and Inspector premium of 5% above technician rate

Shop Inspectors paid for A&P licenses, if possessed

Shop Technicians paid for A&P licenses, if possessed

All hours paid at 1.75x rate for all time-away-from-base/station

Overall, most mechanics received an increase of around 18.5% (without the run taxi license) over an 18 month period.

We also have stronger scope protection, the ability to bump by seniority, and several other improvements to the basic contract language.

Anomaly, I'll wager you here and now....

My pledge to come to this site and a give full and proper credit to the ibt should they return numbers as a percentage of wages and comparable benefits in our upcoming joint agreement, that when added to our last agreement exceeds the current Pilots TA - (OUR 2 teamster agreements to ALPAs 1). You inturn must come to this site and admit you were absolutely wrong should they fail to return equivalent numbers when combined with our last agreement.

What say you?

You are asking me to back my statements that we are doing better with the Teamsters?

I have no issues with that at all.

I say YES. I'm in.

Good call.

 

[1AA]

So how did the meeting go in Miami?
Did the Teamsters show up to create a diversion?
Did Title II guys show up?
Did any IBT supporters change their views on AMFA?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So how did the meeting go in Miami?
Did the Teamsters show up to create a diversion?
Did Title II guys show up?
Did any IBT supporters change their views on AMFA?

Meeting went very well, had over 100 showup.Small Breakfast & lunch was served and a
raffle of Tools was done. 30 Amfa shirts were sold as well.

Teamsters did set up a tent across the street but from what guys said as they drove into work
as well as what I observed, only the three organizers were there all day. No interaction between them an us.

"YES" there were 9 automotive guys that showed, even the guy here in Miami who is pushing the IBT.
6 of the GSE guys signed cards. Also our AMT IBT supporter showed and talked to the AMFA Officers.
The 6 guys who signed amfa cards had signed teamsters cards.

Besides the AMFA officers we had someone from SWA , United . and DFW AA mechanic.