Are the unions getting the message yet?

Saw this thread and thought I'd join and post...as an NWA employee for 5 years, I'm glad this piece of you-know-what union was voted out. Our union rep was the laziest guy ever, sat around all day with his feet up on the table and barked orders at you like he was God. I never wanted to be part-time either, for years I've tried getting a full time position but the union did nothing to help. Instead, they intimidated and harassed the part-time guys and I didn't even WANT to be part-time, so you can understand my frustration. IAM is probably the worst union to have represent you, and I'm looking forward to a direct relationship with Delta...the way I see it, it can't be any worse than it was with the IAM. A few of of us guys flipped our rep the bird as soon as we found out the union got voted out, lazy bastard gets to work outside with us now. We're gonna have fun with him!! ;)
 
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Assuming what you've stated is true, why didn't you guys vote him out a long time ago? Furthermore, what were you so afraid of?

As for getting FT, sure the IAM helped; all bids are done by seniority. On top of that, all awards are posted so that everyone can see them. The rules regarding establishing seniority are consistent across the system. If there were no spots in your city, were you willing to move, or at least go on a temp to get a date? Should they have forced the company to add an extra spot just to accommodate your needs?

Help me out here: What exactly did you want them to help you with? Logging into ACCESS? Filing out a system bid?
 
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Saw this thread and thought I'd join and post...as an NWA employee for 5 years, I'm glad this piece of you-know-what union was voted out. Our union rep was the laziest guy ever, sat around all day with his feet up on the table and barked orders at you like he was God. I never wanted to be part-time either, for years I've tried getting a full time position but the union did nothing to help. Instead, they intimidated and harassed the part-time guys and I didn't even WANT to be part-time, so you can understand my frustration. IAM is probably the worst union to have represent you, and I'm looking forward to a direct relationship with Delta...the way I see it, it can't be any worse than it was with the IAM. A few of of us guys flipped our rep the bird as soon as we found out the union got voted out, lazy bastard gets to work outside with us now. We're gonna have fun with him!! ;)
Falco,
can I tell you that I am more than a little disappointed to read this?

It was a given that there would be disappointment surrounding the vote(s) because one side would lose. For approximately one-half of the now combined DL workforce, there was going to be a big cultural change regardless of the outcome of the vote. The fact that the vote results for all of the major work groups was pretty close to half and half shows that DL has a pretty divided workforce - and it will take time to bring everyone together.

As one who has followed Delta for more than 35 years, I can assure you that a huge part of the Delta culture is that it has been willing to change and assimilate other ideas and cultures as part of the evolutions that DL has gone through. Let me remind you that DL is what it is today SOLELY because it has aggressively participated in mergers and acquisitions FOR DECADES - and in so doing has transforned Delta from a small, regional airline in the Southeast (which at the time could have rightfully called the backwaters of the USA) to an airline with operations on every continent and corner of the US and which has in its DNA some of the finest airlines in the history of US aviation.

But I can assure you having watched DL that previous mergers have not been easy - and it has only been as people from both sides have recognized that they need to work TOGETHER to make DL WIN long term in order for EVERYONE to win individually that the partisan bickering has ended.

If the vote results stand, it will be apparent that there were many PMNW people who do not see the value of unions and there weren't enough PMDL people supportive of representation for the unions to succeed.

But the minute the vote is affirmed as valid in each workgroup, you become one workgroup and I trust you WILL NOT take the opportunity to try to correct whatever wrongs might have been done in the past. If that former union rep. can't hold his own on in the frontline position which he will now have to do, it will become apparent to those who can and will make changes.
But I can assure you that there are plenty of people on both sides of the representation issue who were and are solid workers and they will not miss a beat in doing their best - which helps DL and each person individually.
While that may sound too pie in the sky to be real, I would simply have you direct your attention to either JetBlue or Southwest, two airlines that are very proud of their culture and use it to bind their employees together to the benefit of the company and the individual employees.

BTW, I see I celebrate a 7 year airlineforums anniversary this weekend.
 
Hmm................in my 14+ years at DL , I've yet to see one time clock ! :blink:
I can't imagine a large company not using a time clock to automate the payroll process. Without a time clock, what prevents people from coming in 5 or 10 minutes late or leaving 5 or 10 minutes early yet writing down their regular hours with a pen on a piece of paper? In this day of computers, payroll done with pen and paper is rather archaic.
 
No................it's because I'm an adult, know when I'm suppose to be somewhere and don't need a union to hold my hand and tell me when to wipe !



It is unfortunate that you have a negative attitude towards unions. Is it true that some Union officials give Unions a bad name , sure!!! Having organized to get a Union on the premises at America West in the mid to late 90's for Fleet I can attest to what it has meant for many employees. There have been many improvements in working conditions along with much better pay. In PHX alone, at least 25 employees have been fired and got their jobs back, before the Union, zilch. Before you comment on whether or not they were good employees or deserved to be fired I can honestly say that half of them were fired wrongfully and received compensation. Sometimes it's the little things that a Union rep can help an employee with that makes it worthwhile. I'll make the prediction now that at some point in the near future that Delta fleet in PHX will be outsourced and there will be nobody to help them and that is just sad.
 
Of course, just like the IAM protected NW-BDL from being outsourced in 2008 (NOT!!!). The unions are just full of empty promises


Unions aren't perfect but it wasn't the IAM that outsourced BDL, it was Corporate America. How is it that we as American workers are duped by the elite 2% of rich Americans into believing that it is alright to under pay us and send work to sweat shops? Am I one of the few who realize that Corporate America's number one agenda is stock price and that stock price only goes up when costs are low (i.e. labor) and profits are high?
 
Unions aren't perfect but it wasn't the IAM that outsourced BDL, it was Corporate America. How is it that we as American workers are duped by the elite 2% of rich Americans into believing that it is alright to under pay us and send work to sweat shops? Am I one of the few who realize that Corporate America's number one agenda is stock price and that stock price only goes up when costs are low (i.e. labor) and profits are high?
That's exactly right. The way I heard it, NWA management wanted to outsource all stations except MSP and DTW. It was the IAM that negotiated a compromise to that plan. That compromise saved the jobs of staff at 40 of the largest stations.

I always find it interesting that when a corporation announces massive layoffs, the stock price always goes up. One would think that layoffs would be perceived as a negative. To investors, it's perceived as strongly positive. There's something seriously flawed with that mentality. Seeing people put out of work is never a cause for celebration.
 
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It is unfortunate that you have a negative attitude towards unions. Is it true that some Union officials give Unions a bad name , sure!!! Having organized to get a Union on the premises at America West in the mid to late 90's for Fleet I can attest to what it has meant for many employees. There have been many improvements in working conditions along with much better pay. In PHX alone, at least 25 employees have been fired and got their jobs back, before the Union, zilch. Before you comment on whether or not they were good employees or deserved to be fired I can honestly say that half of them were fired wrongfully and received compensation. Sometimes it's the little things that a Union rep can help an employee with that makes it worthwhile. I'll make the prediction now that at some point in the near future that Delta fleet in PHX will be outsourced and there will be nobody to help them and that is just sad.

Unions had their place..............a long time ago, when working conditions and pay were horrific. Nowadays they are nothing more than a corporation, hiding under a union cloak and looking out for themselves before they look after the ones they supposedly represent and running businesses into the ground.................sorry, but thats the way I see it !

I personally know 3 people, who were fired and got their job back.................all with "No" union ! :blink:
 
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Unions had their place..............a long time ago, when working conditions and pay were horrific. Nowadays they are nothing more than a corporation, hiding under a union cloak and looking out for themselves before they look after the ones they supposedly represent and running businesses into the ground.................sorry, but thats the way I see it !

I personally know 3 people, who were fired and got their job back.................all with "No" union ! :blink:


You don't think that if Unions went away things wouldn't go back to the way they were? Ignorance is my response to that one. I call Bull crap on employees getting their job back without a Union, I would want proof on that one. I saw thousands fired at America West with zero getting their jobs back before we went Union. I have never heard one story from anyone ever that a person got their job back without suing for wrongful termination without a Union on the premise.
 
You don't think that if Unions went away things wouldn't go back to the way they were? Ignorance is my response to that one. I call Bull crap on employees getting their job back without a Union, I would want proof on that one. I saw thousands fired at America West with zero getting their jobs back before we went Union. I have never heard one story from anyone ever that a person got their job back without suing for wrongful termination without a Union on the premise.


P. REZ,

Your point is valid regarding unfair terminations with America West prior to the unions (and even with the unions), in large part due to upper management refusing to involve themselves in the decision to terminate employment. I have worked for a firm once of over a thousand employees, and the termination process needed to be sign-off by SIX levels of management all the way to the CEO of the organization, and anywhere along the way the termination process could be stopped by a manager rejecting the termination the employee. The company had an open door policy and employees were permitted to discuss matters and their pending termination. Honestly, the system worked pretty well, in large part because upper management did not automatically rubber stamp "stupidvisors" actions to terminate.

I have no idea as to how Delta operates its organization, but if it is a fair process to termination with various levels of appeals as with one of mine former employers, then I could understand why Delta employees have been willing to reject the various union bids. However, I am under no illusion that the threat of an union coming on property does encourgage more enlightened management behaviors. A high ranking AFL-CIO official once told me, "Workers don't bring an union, the Company brings an union," which meant to me as to treat employees fairly and with respect and unions will be rejected. America West was far from being respectful or fair with its ramp agents and the TWU was voted onto the property.

So Recounts Jester.
 
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You don't think that if Unions went away things wouldn't go back to the way they were? Ignorance is my response to that one. I call Bull crap on employees getting their job back without a Union, I would want proof on that one. I saw thousands fired at America West with zero getting their jobs back before we went Union. I have never heard one story from anyone ever that a person got their job back without suing for wrongful termination without a Union on the premise.

You can believe anything you want to believe, but again I personally know 3 people who were walked out and got their jobs back via tech ops greivence................and "NO UNION" !

I call Bull Crap on your Bull crap.......................you are not in my shoes ! Yeah........... go unions.................look at NW mechanics and at he UAW , unions did a wonderful job there. One group lost their jobs and the other were saved by the American tax payer after helping run their company into the ground !
 
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You don't think that if Unions went away things wouldn't go back to the way they were? Ignorance is my response to that one. I call Bull crap on employees getting their job back without a Union, I would want proof on that one. I saw thousands fired at America West with zero getting their jobs back before we went Union. I have never heard one story from anyone ever that a person got their job back without suing for wrongful termination without a Union on the premise.


I know two people that went through the tech ops resolution board and got their jobs back. No law suits required.
 
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