Are you ready?

[TWU informer]

"Waffle boy" "flip flop boy" "coward".or whatever you want to call me. The fact will remain that the game of bluff and psyche needs to end and professional negotiations out of the public view will serve everyone's long term interest much better than the games we are witnessing. Both sides have much to lose here and I am disgusted to see games being played and this stage and after the length of these negotiations. Sure we deserve our due but the games must end if an agreement is to be made. Any voice of reason is always met with childish emotional outburst and playground name calling. Are you true professionals out there ready risk all to stand beside in a battle with people who respond in this manner? Really?

 

[strikeforce]

"Waffle boy" "flip flop boy" "coward".or whatever you want to call me. The fact will remain that the game of bluff and psyche needs to end and professional negotiations out of the public view will serve everyone's long term interest much better than the games we are witnessing. Both sides have much to lose here and I disgusted to see games being played and this stage and after the length of these negotiations. Sure we deserve our due but the games must end if an agreement is to be made.

Only games your witnessing are AA games!!!!!

They hold the purse strings!!!

Do you think I want to strike? Hell NO!!! But, I'm not gonna have a bunch of crooks, cronies and liars rob me again!!!!!

You can take that to the AA Credit Union!!!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

An AMT that I am currently work with, is asking this question. "Why go on strike instead of drawing the paycheck and gutting them from within using disruption and system CHAOS? Any of you Rabid Animals with hardened tool steel balls have an answer?

 

[PHL]

Taking out a 401K loan can have some negative consequences.....

1.) Lost opportunity costs. The interest you are paying on the loan is above and beyond the money you already earned. You're also losing out on interest/gains. Suppose you have $10K and take a $5K loan that will incur about $450 in interest over a 5 year period (assuming 3.5%). So, you're effectively left with $10450 after you pay it back and get your account to where it was, but $450 of that is after-tax money you spent. Ya, it's your money, but you could have done more with that money in the meantime.

Now look at the potential income you lost on that $5K while you were paying it back. At low fixed return rates, that could be 4-5%. At average returns of low risk investments(i.e. low risk mutual funds), it could be quite a bit more

2.) If you leave the company for any reason, the loan typically has to be paid back in full within 60 days. Check your plan's fine print. If you don't repay it, it's considered an early withdrawal (before age 59 1/2) and you are then penalized 10% plus IRS and local income taxes on the balance due.

3.) Interest incurred isn't tax deductible.

4.) Terms are binding and not changeable.

 

[Frank Szabo]

An AMT that I am currently work with, is asking this question. "Why go on strike instead of drawing the paycheck and gutting them from within using disruption and system CHAOS? Any of you Rabid Animals with hardened tool steel balls have an answer?

I've been saying that for a couple years now - the logic of giving the company what I believe they really want totally escapes me. I'm beginning to believe some just want some time off and don't want to use their vacation.

If a strike is designed to do financial/logistical damage to the company, how is wandering around OFF the property carrying signs and yelling at passing cars going to accomplish that? Hell - I've got a dog that does that but, instead of yelling, she barks - the difference is we could carry signs.

 

[strikeforce]

An AMT that I am currently work with, is asking this question. "Why go on strike instead of drawing the paycheck and gutting them from within using disruption and system CHAOS? Any of you Rabid Animals with hardened tool steel balls have an answer?

Strike is always a last resort. CHAOS should have happened 8 years ago. For sure the last 3 years.

What's it going to take to get guys pissed off?

 

[eolesen]

The 401K is owned by you, not the company. If you leave, you're still obligated to make re-payments against the loan every month or two weeks, however it was structured. Haven't looked recently, but I don't think they can accelerate the loan to be paid within 60 days.

If you "default" on the re-payments, then you'll get a 1099 and the loan value becomes income for both the feds and the state, plus a 10% penalty as noted by PHL.

 

[odie01]

"Waffle boy" "flip flop boy" "coward".or whatever you want to call me. The fact will remain that the game of bluff and psyche needs to end and professional negotiations out of the public view will serve everyone's long term interest much better than the games we are witnessing. Both sides have much to lose here and I am disgusted to see games being played and this stage and after the length of these negotiations. Sure we deserve our due but the games must end if an agreement is to be made. Any voice of reason is always met with childish emotional outburst and playground name calling. Are you true professionals out there ready risk all to stand beside in a battle with people who respond in this manner? Really?

AA has bluffed and psyched the twu in all the negotiations I've been through, and are continuing to do so, that my dear waffleboy, is what negotiations is all about. Would you like to prevote Yes, on the polished turd they are about to present us?

 

[Frank Szabo]

AA has bluffed and psyched the twu in all the negotiations I've been through, and are continuing to do so, that my dear waffleboy, is what negotiations is all about. Would you like to prevote Yes, on the polished turd they are about to present us?

The "behind-the-scenes" negotiantions is more about how the company and "union" can sell the forthcoming turd to the membership as the latest and greatest, lastest and bestest.

Due to what I've seen in the last 20+ years, I'll never believe there is any argument betwixt the company and TWU except the "how-do-we-do-this-and-not-get-booted" factor re: the turd's presentation.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

If the counter proposal falls short and is rightfully shot down by the Negotiating Committee then we have to play that hand. Chaos has not been effective in the past and sometimes people need to be pushed into a corner to fight their way out. Being prepared is a large part of the battle and is effective when implemented. Bob Owens provides a little survival guidance and wisdom which is more than anyone else does. Leaders are the easiest one to criticize.
We must prepare for battle or we will not be taken seriously. The company intimidation factor, better known as the boo factor is just about ready to be rolled out and we must not be intimidated. No pain- No gain

 

[Frank Szabo]

If the counter proposal falls short and is rightfully shot down by the Negotiating Committee then we have to play that hand. Chaos has not been effective in the past and sometimes people need to be pushed into a corner to fight their way out. Being prepared is a large part of the battle and is effective when implemented. Bob Owens provides a little survival guidance and wisdom which is more than anyone else does. Leaders are the easiest one to criticize.
We must prepare for battle or we will not be taken seriously. The company intimidation factor, better known as the boo factor is just about ready to be rolled out and we must not be intimidated. No pain- No gain

I've quit paying any attention - my vote will be a resounding "NO" regardless of what the SOBs present for a vote, if it gets that far.

An aside - I read in another place the "union" (loosely defined) had walked out of negotiations - true or false?

 

[odie01]

An aside - I read in another place the "union" (loosely defined) had walked out of negotiations - true or false?

False as of 1350 CST

 

[Interested]

You think the company cares about a 30 day cooling off period? They'll let us strike for 5 minutes like the pilots did. Bill Clinton stepped in...and that was the end of that.
Let's take our chances with a PEB..But don't be surprised if we get what we rejected.

In the even we did get released, Obama would repeat what Clinton did...intervene. In the back of Obama's mind might be the impact of his home state and the city of Chicago should the mechanics be allowed to strike....AA employees quite a few heads there.

To Bob Owens......I support you in your efforts to get us a good contract. I respect you for what you do for our craft. But I have to respectfully disagree with you that the TWU will allow a strike foremost.
I find it hard to believe that with so many members relying on OT and spouses working that they would be willing to take home a $0 paycheck.
You would think if people are readying for a strike, they would help the cause simply BY GOING BY THE BOOK....
TVs still on, laptops using everying gigabyte of broadband usage, cards still be being dealt.....
Sorry, the word STRIKE is not in too many people's vocabulary.


I'll be on that picket line in a heartbeat, but sorry to say, I do not see it happening.

What makes you think Obama would step in like Clinton did with the pilots? The pilots can shut down an airline a lot faster than us lowly mechanics.

 

[lineguy43]

What makes you think Obama would step in like Clinton did with the pilots? The pilots can shut down an airline a lot faster than us lowly mechanics.

Thats true but you guys at AA do a lot of mx work inhouse like we used to do early at NWA. When we first got AMFA we came close to striking at NW on our first contract and Bush stepped in an invoked a PEB to stop it because at that time NW was ill prepaired for a MX strike. After that NW went to work farming out maintenance and training scab replacements and were hell bent on busting AMFA in the next contract. Fast forward to 2005 NW had their scabs in place NW had farmed out a lot of its maintenance work to vendors and Bush and the NMB were on board. We got a record release from the NMB when have you EVER seen that happen? Bush did NOT step in with a PEB this time as he was told not to by NW. AA is not in a position to weather a strike by mechanics because they are in the same spot NW was the first time with us. They are not prepaired for it..But the bottom line is AA has not prepaired because they know they do not have to with the lapdog TWU. The TWU will NEVER strike AA you can take that to the bank if there is anything left of your paychecks to take to the bank.

 

[strikeforce]

If the counter proposal falls short and is rightfully shot down by the Negotiating Committee then we have to play that hand. Chaos has not been effective in the past and sometimes people need to be pushed into a corner to fight their way out. Being prepared is a large part of the battle and is effective when implemented. Bob Owens provides a little survival guidance and wisdom which is more than anyone else does. Leaders are the easiest one to criticize.
We must prepare for battle or we will not be taken seriously. The company intimidation factor, better known as the boo factor is just about ready to be rolled out and we must not be intimidated. No pain- No gain

Unfortunately, AA doesn't take US serious unless metal is sitting around. That's when they come around and ask "What's wrong".
I disagree about the boo factor. The boo factor will come from the union. Just like the last T/A, come Friday afternoon about 3PM the company will shove a one sheet T/A under the door, and the union will all jump for the threshold for the sheet of paper with their tongues at the knees. Then the union will come around and tell us.....take it or be prepared to strike....get loans from your 401K's. You wouldn't want to wager on how it's going to play out, would you?

Leaders don't go around asking their members to take out loans, unless Bob knows information he's not providing us. In line with how the twu keeps us in the dark. Leaders lead.....in the war room....game plan in hand.....how to strategically counter AA....instead the only counter offensive is take out a loan. How typical and pathetic is that?

If mechanics haven't prepared themselves for war.......shame on them. I've been ready for war.....jihad......strike.....shutdown....since April 2003. Just say the word!