Branson Invasion

[GraftedOne]

Dizel 8: Thanks for your reply. Yes, you are right and I admit that I took it from my contact and was a little afraid and posted it without hard evidence. Sorry to all hurt or inflamed. I did not mean to hurt anyone. Please forgive me. Yes, it is just what I heard. Your story is straight to the point. I will not post anything unless it is known for sure. I will worry about myself but many other posts here are rumor or "a friend told me" stuff. So, maybe we should all take your post to heart in the future.

I will delete the thread if you will tell me how. Sorry guys and gals!

 

[AAmech]

Branson is overrated!! His flops are rarely advertised. Virgin Cola anyone? This is not Australia. The US market is extreemly competitive with an abundance of LCC's who are rapidly expanding and the majors restructuring. After watching his misarable Virgin Express performance I doubt FL,WN and B6 executives are losing much sleep. He's going to get PUMMELLED!!!

 

[Hopeful]

..

 

[Hopeful]

Maybe this can help the argument. Read the part about executive pay being $60,000.00. What do you think a pilot, or anyother employee will be paid?

Governor courts Branson's airline
Bay Area potential site for Virgin USA

Robert Salladay, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Saturday, January 17, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacramento -- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is pushing Richard Branson, the maverick founder of Virgin Atlantic Airways, to base the company's new domestic carrier near San Francisco International Airport and provide a centerpiece for the governor's promise to make California business-friendly.

Schwarzenegger and Branson reportedly met on the set of the upcoming movie "Around the World in 80 Days," in which both have small parts. Since then, Schwarzenegger has lobbied Branson personally, offering financial incentives if Virgin USA opens its headquarters in San Mateo County instead of two other sites being considered -- Boston and a Washington suburb near Dulles International Airport.

The tussle over Virgin USA is turning into a classic case of economic courtship, with taxpayer money as the biggest lure dangled before Branson as he attempts to build a domestic U.S. airline.

For Schwarzenegger, capturing the new company will test his negotiating skills after promising to travel the world to promote California as a good place to do business.

For SFO, winning Virgin USA would boost its business and help it compete against Oakland International, the Bay Area's fastest-growing airport. Low- cost carrier Southwest Airlines pulled out of SFO several years ago in favor of Oakland, which also gained JetBlue Airways.

SFO, by far the region's major gateway for international travel, has battled back by luring ATA and American West.

Schwarzenegger, along with a group of economic development officials, has offered Virgin USA about $18 million in state and local money to train new airline workers. Boston is offering inexpensive leases at a city-owned industrial park, a $3,000 tax credit for employees who live in the area and $1. 5 million for training, the Boston Globe reported.

A decision from Virgin USA is expected within a few months, after another round of tours and counteroffers from the three areas. Executives from the fledgling airline, which has only a small office in New York, are planning another trip to California within a few weeks to hear another pitch.

"The one thing that has really surprised me most about this whole effort is how much attention the governor has put on this," said Deberah Bringelson, head of the local group trying to lure Virgin USA and president of Samceda, an economic development group in San Mateo County. "He's been great to work with, and it's a huge change from the last administration."

Because he is a British citizen, Branson cannot own more than 49 percent of a U.S. airline or control more than 25 percent of its voting stock. He still is looking for a U.S. partner or group of investors to own the rest of Virgin USA, which would compete with other American carriers for domestic routes.

The Virgin USA headquarters is expected to employ between 400 and 500 people, a portion of the 3,200 flight attendants, pilots, mechanics, managers and others that the new company plans to hire during the next three years. They want about 80,000 square feet of office space for the headquarters and about 30,000 square feet for a pilot-training center with flight simulators.

The new Virgin USA headquarters could mean an economic boost of tens of millions of dollars for the Bay Area. Assuming an average salary of $60,000 for executives and others at the headquarters, the company could spend at least $30 million a year on local payroll.

Corporations almost always make decisions based on the bottom line, so it's unclear if Schwarzenegger's celebrity will play any role in luring the company. Virgin USA reportedly wants a flashy opening to launch its new carrier in the United States -- something Schwarzenegger could provide perhaps more than the governors of Massachusetts or Virginia.

Todd Pawlowski, an executive with Virgin USA, said the company started paying attention to California as a possible headquarters after it became clear Schwarzenegger was going to win the recall election in October and kept saying he wanted to make California friendly for businesses.

"So when Gov. Schwarzenegger came into office, he set up a team to really focus on us," said Pawlowski, director of customer service for the new company. "And I think the fact that your top elected official is taking an active interest, especially someone like Gov. Schwarzenegger, it can't hurt, let's put it that way. It's very flattering."

Pawlowski said the company is nevertheless "looking for anything we can. Anytime you start a company, you want to conserve cash." He said the company is interested in job recruitment, employee screening and training money, tax incentives and marketing help.

The high cost of housing, however, remains a problem for the Bay Area's bid.

"We made it clear to the team that this is something we are trying to overcome," Pawlowski said. "You have a lot of positive aspects, a very educated workforce, a great lifestyle. ... The bulk of the people we are going to be hiring are from the area. Those people are already there. You don't have to worry about buying a new house in the area. But the high cost of living does translate into a higher cost of doing business."

Branson has asked Schwarzenegger for help with a problem at Los Angeles International Airport, which Branson says has been "the slowest of all" airports in preparing for the new Airbus A380 jumbo jet.

Branson wants Virgin to fly the 555-seat double-decker jets from London to Los Angeles by 2006, but is concerned the airport is not working fast enough to accommodate the wingspan, size and weight of the new plane.

No major airline has its headquarters in California, but officials have been working for months to lure Branson and Virgin USA. During a visit to the Bay Area last year, Virgin USA executives attended a Giants game at Pacific Bell Park, where the company's logo was flashed on a video screen, Pawlowski said.

Schwarzenegger also discussed Virgin USA when he met in December with the British ambassador, Sir David Manning, and the ambassador called Virgin after the conversation, aides to the governor said.

"It's the governor's top priority to bring jobs to California," said Margita Thompson, the governor's spokeswoman, "and when there is an opportunity, he's eager to work with the local entities to make those jobs a reality."

Bay Area economic development officials pitched San Mateo County as cheaper than the rest of the Bay Area but also easily accessible by train and BART from as far away as Gilroy and Contra Costa County. Because of the weather, they said, energy costs will be lower than on the East Coast. They also put together about $18 million in worker-training money from various sources, including the state's Employment Training Panel.

But they also pitched the Bay Area as a nice fit for a maverick company like Virgin.

"Virgin really fits into the entire climate of the Bay Area, in that it's creative, innovative, a little off the wall," Bringelson said. "They really fit in with the companies you find here."

E-mail Robert Salladay at [email protected].

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(edited by moderator to delete lots of unnecessary junk.)

 

[Dizel8]

GraftedOne,

I do not mean to be harsh on you, this is a rumour after all
But as such, I guess we will see what happens. I still doubt Branson will, much less try, to bring foreign pilots to fly his a/c's. He might suddenly
lose all backing from the politicos and that will further throw a cog on the wheel of the opens skies agreement, that EU is pushing for.

As far as the post about the LCC "deserving" what they get and "gloating", I think you need to step away from managements point of view, obvisouly they are using the LCC threat against you. You are not seeing this meltdown because the LCC, sure they do have something to do with it, but even prior to 9-11 there were problems on the horizon. Had biz travel not been affected, the legacy carriers, while still facing issues, would still be doing very well. The loss of revenue is the problem. All the LCC's together, probably has a fleet smaller than AMR. Yet we are the demise of the airline industry? That is hard to believe!

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

First of all, there are more than enough US Pilots that would love to work!!!!!!! They are not sitting on a gold chair and look down on the rest. Further more, RJ, Commuter or anyother type of pilot is a pilot. So main line pilots should not be looking down on their peers. And the pilots that are working currently for LCC airines, why are you so affraid. Just think what the pilots of the big thought of you when you startred to appear at the horizon.

A company that has intelligent and loyal employees will go much further than others.

So when Branson comes to town and publishes ads that he want's good employees, you might should just apply. I am writing this because if no US pilots will apply, he might have no other choice than finding good pilots in some other places than the local market (Canada, Mexico).

And how do you know today what he is going to pay? Have you been offered a contaract, or have you even seen one?

It is up to you to make a positive differance (or a negative one if you chose to) but don't blame any one else than your self for making that choice.

 

[GraftedOne]

Dizel 8: I dont think I ever said "As far as the post about the LCC "deserving" what they get and "gloating",. If I ever infered or insinuated that I appologize. I believe you might have my posts mixed up with someone else. I dont want any pilot to lose their job. No one!

JustPlaneCrazy: I was a commuter pilot and only have respect for them in what they do. I am not looking down my nose at anyone. No one. I know that any day I could be cleaning toilets. (by the way, I have done that for a living) I have a family member that is flying for a commuter. He has told me that he sees the profession going down the drain. He was hopeful to fly for a major one day but now at age 26 and being with a commuter for 5 years sees his next 15 years flying an RJ. This is not bad if one enjoys doing that. I respect anyones decision to do that. I do however have a problem with those that say, "I will do his job for half his pay." This is truely scab mentality and will never do the industry any favors. This battle has been going on in every industry and will continue. I have no ambition of winning anyone over to my way of thinking. Those that want to work for half pay will do it. My question is how low will our profession go? Who will stand and say "I wont be gone 22 days a month, 14 hours a day for 1500 dollars?" What if someone says they will work for 750 a month. Where does it stop? I dont blame anyone for the choices I have made. I am doing quite well and am very happy. I do see my peers at other airlines and yes the commuters hurting and that makes me sad. I am not afraid. I dont put my trust in a job or men. Tomorrow may never come. I am secure.
I will state again as I have before: I am sorry if I have offended anyone. Anyone. Please forgive me. I was only asking for insight from other professionals. It wont happen again.

 

[JFK777]

Branson's Virgin Atlantic is the most innovative airline in the world. Virgin Blue is Aussie cool and Qantas hates it worse then it ever despised Ansett. Americans shouldn't get all worried about Virgin USA, it will start with 20 airplanes and then grow to 50 and maybe 100. It will fly 737NG's (since that is what the other two baby Virgins fly), Virgin will bring something very special to the US market.

 

[skycruiser]

Branson's Virgin Atlantic is the most innovative airline in the world. Virgin Blue is Aussie cool and Qantas hates it worse then it ever despised Ansett. Americans shouldn't get all worried about Virgin USA, it will start with 20 airplanes and then grow to 50 and maybe 100. It will fly 737NG's (since that is what the other two baby Virgins fly), Virgin will bring something very special to the US market.

Virgin USA puts a new spin on the big debate thus far, how will the majors fair against the LCC's. The new twist to this is that now it will not be Major's vs LCC's but LCC vs LCC vs national carriers. There are soon to be a lot of airlines, nationals (regionals) and LCC all fighting for the same folks. Of course the majors will feel the pinch but the difference will be that they all offer a higher level of service for those that want it. The LCC's and nationals will be in fierce competition for the coveted seat miles. It will be interesting to see how this goes down over the next few years, especially for LUV. There are a lot more players now and they all want the same passengers LUV currently has yet the big difference is the new folks are equipping their aircraft with a lot more of comforts and toys LUV doesn't offer for the same price. :unsure:

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

We should first look at how we treated the Commuters our self. It is the main line pilots who stabbed the commuters in the back when ever they could. So my respect to the RJ pilots etc is bigger than tho the main line ones.

In regard to the sallary. It will all work out. In every profession there will come a time of adjustments. The main line pilots where crying foul play when the LCC started flying, etc. etc. etc. I am not afraid that we will see the $1500/month sallaries. But me might see some of the main line pilots not making +100K/month.

It is not about offending someone. It is about asking questions in a way that they don't sound like facts and not getting to heated up on things we don't have any facts about.

We are all professionals and it is good that we comunicate with each other!

 

[skycruiser]

We should first look at how we treated the Commuters our self. It is the main line pilots who stabbed the commuters in the back when ever they could. So my respect to the RJ pilots etc is bigger than tho the main line ones.

In regard to the sallary. It will all work out. In every profession there will come a time of adjustments. The main line pilots where crying foul play when the LCC started flying, etc. etc. etc. I am not afraid that we will see the $1500/month sallaries. But me might see some of the main line pilots not making +100K/month.

It is not about offending someone. It is about asking questions in a way that they don't sound like facts and not getting to heated up on things we don't have any facts about.

We are all professionals and it is good that we comunicate with each other!

It might happen but what airline will be the first to toss its hat over the wall in favor of increased operating cost. Take a guess what the most expensive cost is to an airline? It is not aircraft cost (payment, mx, etc) its not fuel, its the crews. RJ operators used to be prop operators and they used to all fly the dreaded prop for real cheap meaning lower pay for the same work. Well now they fly these fancy new jets that still get you lower pay for the same work. Comair pilots tried it a few years ago and failed. The reason is the same reason you see Majors spinning off their regional airlines to get around the scope clauses, crew pay. If the majors started flying regional jets they would have to pay the crews on the same scale as the larger aircraft thus negating the benefits of having a regional that is operating at a lower cost on it's own certificate.

 

[Fly]

Just Plane Crazy Posted on Feb 28 2004, 10:03 PM

But me might see some of the main line pilots not making +100K/month.

The only main line pilot making +100K/month is John Travolta

 

[mweiss]

I do however have a problem with those that say, "I will do his job for half his pay."

So, then, I'm sure you never choose to shop somewhere because they are willing to sell you a product for half the price of another store, right? After all, that's scab mentality.

I'm baffled by this attitude...and it's so prevalent around here. What in the world makes you think that you deserve to be paid more than someone else? If you're both willing to do the same job, at the same level of quality, and the other person is willing to do so for half your price, I'll hire the other guy. To do otherwise is throwing money away.

Similarly, if you believe that you should be paid the higher amount because to do otherwise is scab mentality, I sure hope you never shop at Wal-Mart.

FWIW, I do choose to never shop at Wal-Mart (or Sam's Club) because I find their labor practices to be abhorrant.

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

Just Plane Crazy Posted on Feb 28 2004, 10:03 PM

But me might see some of the main line pilots not making +100K/month.

The only main line pilot making +100K/month is John Travolta

Sorry I meant to write +10K/month (= +100K/year). My mistake!