Canadian Helicopter Pilots Association

[Albert Ross]

I'm all for an Association as described above - where do I sign?

With regard to CARs, most of it is poorly written - to use an English legal phrase, you could drive a coach and horses through a lot of it. We should certainly have input there. Personally, I don't care whether passengers wear seat belts or not - I expect them to have the sense to realise ithat an instrument panel in the face tends to ruin the whole day, but as long as my neck's on the block, then they will wear them - end of story. Don't forget that as soon as you instruct a passenger, it becomes law as well.

Phil

 

[Helifix]

Please send me my membership for a Canadian Association.

 

[Heli Ops]

I know you guys have been pushing the pilots assn but why not cover all forms of the industry. Remember you might have some engineers, ground crew, even interested parties wanting to support it. If you modified the ideas behind this you could get the support of not just the pilots, but a greater cross section of the industry, including those who are just ardent supporters and this would give you even more clout behind you when trying to deal with people.

Those that I have spoken to have said that the Heli Assn of Canada is not really effective and they would rather see an assn run by those working in it everyday. This is just some feedback from your fellow industry people.

Why not have it as the Canadian Helicopter Crews Assn or Canadian Helicopter Industry Assn this way it doesnt alienate those that dont fit into the pilot catergory. Just some suggestions to give you more teeth.

Heli Ops

 

[Newton]

I have been listening and watching for sometime now in regards to an association, up until now I have not viewed my opinion. The main reason is because I didn’t think the Canadian industry was ready. I mean ready by having the organization to guide us through the necessary steps to do this right.
We may only have one crack at the cat sort of speak and it is my opinion that if we are going to go through the process of having an association. It must be done right.
I am also not a big fan of what we understand as a Union. This isn’t about a mill worker who is trying to get triple time for a stat holiday with a dozen “floaters†in 6 months!
This to me is about respect, respect as a profession. Look around at any other profession. Lawyers, Nurses, Medics, Dental, Airline………….. You name it; they all belong to an association of some kind. And they are treated with the respect their profession demands!

I also have been a member of PHPA for the better part of a year now, I have watch, listened and even called Butch along with a couple of colleagues to ask him some tuff questions on what they are all about and how they can help us.

One of my concerns about belonging to an association is how it will affect the company in a negative way, as a lot of you out there, I have a vested interest in the company I work for and have a lot to loose if they were to suffer from such an organization.
So one of the questions that I had for Butch was “will an association put the company out of business?†We are already more expensive than most of our competitors and as much as I would like to see an association, it does us no good if we have no work or contract!

His reply was along the lines of this………. “One of the biggest misconceptions… just look at what we did for PHI and Air Logistics. They received a 28% pay raise and they retained all of their contracts, the customer came to depend on their high level of service and safety and were willing to pay more, just like someone else mentioned “it just gets passed alongâ€
He also mentioned that this does not create a work place for the lazy and unmotivated. What it dose create is a set of rules. An employee now knows what is expected of him & a manager now has a “rule book†on how to manage people. It makes everyone’s jobs easier. Long gone are the days of a manager “bulling†an employee into submission and an employee cutting his own “secret deals†Everyone knows their position.
He even went on to say that once the process was over, the companies fear was eliminated and things actually ran smoother. He did mention that “tensions†rose a bit every 3 years during negotiations but other than that…………… everyone went to work happier, both sides of the fence!
This was a big issue for me, yes, more money would be nice BUT the big one for me is to be able to go to work and not be reprimanded by voicing my opinion or concerns………. “There are bases were we send guys to that speak upâ€!!

Well without going on for ever here, my suggestion to all is sign up with the association, cost 50 bucks & you do not have to be an organized member! See what they have to say & give Butch a call. He is anxiously waiting to hear from you and will gladly answer your questions.

And keep in mind, this is NOT an American program, they represent a dozen countries around the world, except Canada!! They have the knowledge and the finances to help us along.

Your thoughts!

 

[walterheneghan]

I have decided to "uncloak" and add my real voice and real name to this debate. I am all for an Association of Professional Helicopter Aviators: Pilots, Engineers, Managers, Owners. I realize that the owners have their own gig (the HAC) and various groups of engineers have their turf staked out (ie Atlantic Association of AME). So, let's make it happen for the pilots. Let's be inclusive, not exclusive. Let's be transparent and open. Let's make it about championing the Canadian Industry. Let's make it about Safety, Fairness, Professional behaviour, Obeying the law (CARs, Labour code, OH&s, etc.). Let's do it NOW. Let's put the work into it, and let's make it work. Count me in.

Walter Heneghan
CHL EMS

 

[Blackbeard]

It is very pleasing to see the momentum building on this issue.
It is equally refreshing to see the number of new faces appearing in regard to the forming of an Association. Although these people have never posted anything on this forum before, they obviously feel strongly enough to sign on and make their views public.
Keep it up guys. Any comments, both for and against, are welcome, and you can be sure those who are trying to make this happen appreciate your words and will take these comments into consideration.
It does appear that the vast majority are in favour of some form of organisation.
Thanks to Saturnman, Bubbleboy and those others of you who are putting in the hard work that is required to make this thing happen. Let us all make sure that once it is up and running we all support it and make their hard work worthwhile.

 

[helicopper]

associations WORK ... just ask any flatfoot in this great country of ours!!

where's the meet on the 24th?? i'll be there with my cheque in hand.

i'm looking forward to meeting you characters...


dan mulligan
opp heli unit
orillia, ont
oppa/phpa/chpa

 

[Biggles]

Yep got my cheque too, sooo, where is that meet anyways! Biggsie can sure use a little time off or dummy time. Now, if I can convice my entourage to leave earlier I might just be able to enjoy that cheque wagging business!

Later gators!

 

[GoldMember]

I'll keep this short; I am very satisfied with the situation that I am fortunate enough to be a part of. I get paid a comfortable wage to fly for an operator who treats me and my family with respect. The aircraft I fly are maintained by a group of dedicated and responsible engineers. Safety and training are as important to the owner and management as they are to all of the drivers and wrenches.

Those who find themselves in a situation that is less than ideal should take a hard look at what causes their discomfort. Is it real abuse by the employer, or is it just a genaral dislike of the industry? I agree that things can always be improved, but lets be careful not to handcuff ourselves. Associate for representation on issues such as safety and operational concerns? Yes. Unionise? No.

 

[Pitch Link]

Hey Goldmember,
You raise a very valid point. One that I would have agreed with until recently. The recent goings on in Western Canada with regards to take overs and buy outs has shown me that usaully the employees are the last to be considered in the day to day runnings of the business. ( see siesmic for sale ) Its time to protect our own intrests and work together. Tell me where to send the cheque.

 

[swashplate]

Count me in!

 

[Rotor-Head]

I for one can't hardly wait for this association to get going, being a born and raised westerner and working for a company that merged or to me was taken over by it's eastern division which just happens to be in Qubec, I've seen a lot of major BS since, just for an example and maybe I'm being overly sensitive but as everyone probably knows Alberta Forestry pays 4.0 hour daily minimums not averaged, well the fine management team within the company decided that they would average all minimums accross the board so when the flight crew was on Alberta Forestry Fire 001 for a week flying 8.0 hours a day and then sent to Edra fire base on manup and didn't turn a blade for a week the company will be paid for 84 hours and the flight crew will only be paid for 56 hours you don't need an accounting degree to figure out who's getting screwed on this deal, by the way the question was asked why the crews weren't being paid the same hours as the helicopter and the answer was that the extra money they were stealing from their crews was to make up for some clients who didn't pay their bills. I truly hope this association can help put a stop to this kind of crap.

 

[407 Driver]

Just pick up the phone, Rotor-Head, and say good-bye to those loosers. There are several other good honest (western) Operators who will pay for your services.

 

[CTD]

Rotor Head, what you're describing is likely illegal if you were manning the ship and your name was on the no-fly flight report. Check it out with a labour lawyer.

That's just wrong on so many levels.

There is room for an organization that tries to raise the bar of professionalism in the Canadian helicopter industry (not collective bargaining!!). Such a group could work with the HAC, insurance underwriters, end users, and TC to represent the interests of the pilot community, which is largely ignored these days. For that to be effective, two fundamental things have to happen.

- There would have to be strong discipline within the pilot community to uphold high standards of professionalism. We all know that there are some awesome examples of this in Canada, but we also have our share of, well, you know. This could not be tolerated. The organization would have to come out strongly against unprofessional behaviour by pilots, and not be there to protect the weak.

- All, or most, pilots would have to participate, including financially.

I wonder how much interest there really is. This topic still hasn't yet managed to attract the level of interest of my stupid motorcycle trip, despite that thread being dormant for the past month.

A salary, travel, office expenses, and a cell phone, will easily bring you into the $150,000 to $200,000 / year range to float this thing. With 2500 CPL/H and ATPL/H in force, of whom maybe less than half are flying commercially in Canada, that adds up to at least $120/yr per active pilot. When it comes to paying for this 'association', I wonder how many will actually come to the plate.

If an organization, as described above, ever does come into being, don't let the efforts of the guys who are trying to get this going be wasted. All commercially active pilots need to support it.

 

[VERTICAL REF]

407 and CTD , I was going to totally avoid this topic, (hence my own bbrrbb association ) but again both of you individuals are 110 % correct. Well done...