Company Match of Prefunding Refund

[NYer]

Put Response Here!

 
This issue is being handled in an "Adversary Proceeding" under the AMR bankrupcty in Judge Lane's Court.

 

[screwed again]

 

 

The Bottom Line Questions?​

 
 
1.  Are we going to get the match money? ...Eventually
 
2. Is the TWU going to get an answer from AA one way or the other? ...They must first decide if they will continue with their pursuit of modification to the retiree benefits.
 
 
4. Is this just the beginning of a long drawn out court case to keep us from the money so that the company can make more interest from that money? ...This process is about ALL retiree benefits and not just retiree medical (which is a fraction of their liability).
 

 

Rose colored glasses, half full! We Ain't gettin' diddly. Mark me down, post #167 on this thread, existing employees lose. I don't have much money in the match, but it's mine. And I don't think I'll ever see it.

 

[MetalMover]

The best thing to do is forget about the pre-funding match. I realize it sucks and it frustrates. I know it is rightfully ours. So was our pension in its original form. If this goes to trial, it could very well linger for years.
If we do get it down the road, it will be a surprise.

 

[AANYER]

MetalMover,
 
We will never forget.  This is another fatal move by the TWU trusting the company.  You had boys with High School Diplomas negotiating with seasoned contract lawyers from the best schools in the country.  Let me ask a few questions, Does the best baseball or any sports stars represent themselves?  The answer is clear and present.  Does the pilots represent themselves? The answer is clear and present.  Yet we had Bobby Gless of the TWU walking around with a briefcase like a two bit shoe salesman.  Furthermore, he had the nerve to say, via the upper TWU hence men, that we should be happy with what we got.  Give me a damn break.  They said we were going to get it, the match that is, we took it where the sun don't shine.
 
AMFA now more than ever

 

[MetalMover]

MetalMover,
 
We will never forget.  This is another fatal move by the TWU trusting the company.  You had boys with High School Diplomas negotiating with seasoned contract lawyers from the best schools in the country.  Let me ask a few questions, Does the best baseball or any sports stars represent themselves?  The answer is clear and present.  Does the pilots represent themselves? The answer is clear and present.  Yet we had Bobby Gless of the TWU walking around with a briefcase like a two bit shoe salesman.  Furthermore, he had the nerve to say, via the upper TWU hence men, that we should be happy with what we got.  Give me a damn break.  They said we were going to get it, the match that is, we took it where the sun don't shine.
 
AMFA now more than ever
 

What I meant in my post was to forget about the pre funding match for the time being. No sense getting all worked up over something we have no control over. In my post I said it was rightfully ours....but the reality of it is we have no control over it unless we all start kicking in for our own legal defense OUTSIDE of the clutches of the TWU.
As for our negotiating teams past and present, I could not agree more with you. Amateurs sitting across the table from professionals....quite embarrassing to say the least.
 
The only answer is to vote the TWU out!

 

[DallasConehead]

MetalMover,
 
We will never forget.  This is another fatal move by the TWU trusting the company.  You had boys with High School Diplomas negotiating with seasoned contract lawyers from the best schools in the country.  Let me ask a few questions, Does the best baseball or any sports stars represent themselves?  The answer is clear and present.  Does the pilots represent themselves? The answer is clear and present.  Yet we had Bobby Gless of the TWU walking around with a briefcase like a two bit shoe salesman.  Furthermore, he had the nerve to say, via the upper TWU hence men, that we should be happy with what we got.  Give me a damn break.  They said we were going to get it, the match that is, we took it where the sun don't shine.
 
AMFA now more than ever

Let me just say this about that, while I agree with you partially. The bad blood and the negativity can cause problems with your health over the long term. Seriously... Find a way to kind of let it go a little bit. This job is not worth your health or being able to spend the rest of your life enjoying your family. That is what is really important in this life. Hell, its a crap job, nurses fresh out of college get paid more, and lots of other professions I'm pretty sure do to.. Take it for what it is and what it has been made into, a crap job that very few want. We've made our choices, in hind sight the choices could have been better. It is what it is.  Ride whats left of the wave into the beach and try to enjoy the rest of your days.

 

[Realityck]

MetalMover,
 
We will never forget.  This is another fatal move by the TWU trusting the company.  You had boys with High School Diplomas negotiating with seasoned contract lawyers from the best schools in the country.  Let me ask a few questions, Does the best baseball or any sports stars represent themselves?  The answer is clear and present.  Does the pilots represent themselves? The answer is clear and present.  Yet we had Bobby Gless of the TWU walking around with a briefcase like a two bit shoe salesman.  Furthermore, he had the nerve to say, via the upper TWU hence men, that we should be happy with what we got.  Give me a damn break.  They said we were going to get it, the match that is, we took it where the sun don't shine.
 
AMFA now more than ever
 
 
 
 
As I said before, you obviously haven’t read the decision and don’t know what you are talking about. Bobby Gless was not our counsel or advocate in the bankruptcy proceedings, Sharon Levine was and she was also the legal counsel to TWU retirees. All of this is right on the court papers. As I showed before, the decision makes clear that AA’s motion was being heard as part of the 1114 process. It says nothing about the prefunding match, and the Court doesn’t even have jurisdiction over that issue. If the Company does not pay I expect we will arbitrate and, while I will not predict what an arbitrator will do, in my opinion our language (which is the same language agreed to by the APFA) is sufficient to secure the match once the 1114 proceedings are concluded.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[AANYER]

Realityck,
 
I'm getting peeved, I do know what I talking about and you know that I know what I'm talking about.  It's the people in your statement above that's not adequately prepared to litigate and negotiate against the companies lawyers.  We need bonafide contract lawyers with a history of wining to negotiate for us.  I am starving for a contract win.  For christ sake, it's been 26 + years at this company with no TWU contract wins.  The last time we had a contract that was worth anything was when AMFA received a great contract at Northwest Airlines and we followed right in their foot steps.  Let me just inform you, I'm fully versed and I have a legitimate degree.  It is not from an online school like Jimmy Littles online degree.  We will never forget of forgive what you continue to do our class and craft.

 

[exs]

 
 
 
 
No TWU Representative or anyone on the 1114 Retiree Committee has raised the issue of how the active employees prefunding match should be used. The contract speaks for itself, as does the Trust Agreement (2003 Contract). 
 
Neither does anyone know if Judge Lane will rule that retirees are vested in their retiree medical, nor if the new AA management might not raise a secondary issue due to his ruling.
 
 
In case you’ve not seen it as I have, this letter was previously sent to Local Presidents:
 
 
September 4, 2012
 
 To: All Local Presidents 
 
Re: Pre-Funded Retiree Medical Contributions 
 
Dear Brothers:
 
Unfortunately we have had an issue with misinformation being disseminated to the
membership and I have been receiving calls.      The newly ratified TWU/AA 
agreements, approval of which is scheduled for hearing before the Bankruptcy
Court next week, provides that TWU Members who are participants in the 
prefunding program will receive their own contributions plus investment earnings 
and the employer contributions plus investment earnings, subject to (successful
conclusion of the 1114 process”.
 
Please note that some of the misinformation circulating appears to arise from the 
fact that the original prefunding agreement states that one of the potential uses of 
the employer money would be to secure alternative retiree medical coverage in the 
event the trust is terminated; such a program, the original agreement is clear, must 
be agreed to by the parties. It is in connection with this provision that several 
Local Presidents have asked that we investigate whether it is possible to secure an
alternative retiree medical program. Let us make absolutely clear, right here and 
now, so there can be no misunderstanding: any such program is subject to  TWU’s
agreement to it; and TWU will only agree to any alternate program if participation 
in it by individual members is COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY. We will not 
permit enactment of any program that would interfere with distribution of the 
employer contribution back to any employee, absent that employees individual
authorization.
 
Fraternally,
 
Donald M. Videtich
International Representative 
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
 

 
The question is successful for whom, the company or the TWU? Those famous grey areas in our new POS contract or should I say blank areas.
 
Also big surprise, now we go to arbitration. How come this was not mentioned before? How come the TWU has not responded to its active members? The ones that pay the dues remember. Man this crap could take another year or several years. What a bunch of horses chit. 
 
I guess we get what we pay for. Go ahead start defending your worthless union.

 

[Realityck]

Realityck,
 
I'm getting peeved, I do know what I talking about and you know that I know what I'm talking about.  It's the people in your statement above that's not adequately prepared to litigate and negotiate against the companies lawyers.  We need bonafide contract lawyers with a history of wining to negotiate for us.  I am starving for a contract win.  For christ sake, it's been 26 + years at this company with no TWU contract wins.  The last time we had a contract that was worth anything was when AMFA received a great contract at Northwest Airlines and we followed right in their foot steps.  Let me just inform you, I'm fully versed and I have a legitimate degree.  It is not from an online school like Jimmy Littles online degree.  We will never forget of forgive what you continue to do our class and craft.

 
 
 
 
 
I regret you are peeved. Unlike you, I lay no claim to some exceptional higher education. I am nothing more than a licensed A & P mechanic with a Bachelors Degree (not on-line). However, when I want to know how a judge has ruled I read the decision. When I want to know who represented us in bankruptcy I look at the record which is available on-line. You have stated that the Company’s slick lawyers circumvented the 1114 process. The decision states otherwise and also states that they failed to accomplish their mission which was to allow AA to walk away from its obligation to provide medical benefits to retirees.  You stated that we were represented by Bobby Gless in Bankruptcy. The record shows that Gless represented the TWU on the Creditor’s Committee, not in Court, and also shows that at every Creditor’s Committee meeting he had Sharon Levine with him. You state that our legal representation was incompetent and inferior to the Company’s. Show me a statement by the judge that supports that allegation. Show me a part of any brief filed on behalf of the TWU which you, in your wisdom, feel was inferior.
 
You apparently believe that AMFA supplied superior representation when it dealt with the UAL bankruptcy. I have not criticized AMFA’s representation of its members in the UAL bankruptcy because I understand that in bankruptcy you have no choices. The idea that AMFA achieved better results for its members in the UAL bankruptcy than the TWU did for it’s members in the AA bankruptcy is ridiculous beyond belief. As for the contract at NWA, you seem to ignore the fact that by the amendable date of the agreement NWA had managed to cut its mechanic workforce by more than fifty percent and outsource most of its heavy checks. And, unfortunately, we both remember what happened after the amendable date. But, I suppose that was the fault of the evil industrial unions except, of course, the UAW which supplied more economic assistance to AMFA strikers than AMFA.

 

[AANYER]

Realityck,

You should call your self "Lack of reality", why, because it's obvious that you have no idea of what reality means. The reality of the situation is that you are one of the TWU leaders that helped to bring back all of these inferior contracts. Later on, I will point out all of the TWU fails over my 26 years here at AA.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

The twu and twenty years of concessionery contracts.
Nothing but a bunch of spineless bums who never could lead unless it was to a slaughter...

 

[AANYER]

Realityck, or better yet "Unreal"
 
We were not in bankruptcy before November 2011 and you and the rest of the TWU leaders brought back concessionary contract after concessionary contract for the better part of 26 plus years. Bankruptcy only made a horrible situation worst.
 
Let's see:
 

• TWU got us reduced VC from 7 weeks down to 5 weeks.  However, fleet service keep their six weeks VC
• TWU got us reduced IOD from 90 days down to a measly 10
• TWU got us first two days of sick time at half pay, now first day at half pay.  The fleet service keep theirs at full pay for the years before bankruptcy.
• TWU got us Monthly Medical which quadrupled in cost
• ​TWU still has not gotten us back to the salary that we received because of the AMFA contract at northwest.  At Northwest, IAM scabbed the AFMA folk, spineless rats.
• TWU got us the worst bumping rights. AMTs can't bump the lowest seniority worker at the closest station.  They can only bump the lowest guys in the system, which means NY, Boston and Chicago.  Try finding a crash pad for less that $1,500 per month in one of these locations.  This is what happened to the poor folk in Tulsa and Alliance for listening to you spineless jellyfish.
• TWU got us the lowest AMT pay in the USA, even though we are the largest airline in the world.  The Pilots and Flight attendants have deals in place that will drive their salary to the top.  Segway, the IAM is trying to match us, even though USAIR has not been in bankruptcy for years.  Wow, what a bunch of wusses.
• TWU stole fractional equity shares from us
• TWU will not provide us will a detailed spread which shows the equity payout for each individual member.  Instead, they provide us with a phony calculator that changes daily to suit themselves.
• TWU stole shares from each and every technician that was not calculated at his or her full hourly pay rate.  For example, $34.5 and not $35, roughly that's 193 members times 3 shares each for a total of 579 shares.  These 579 shares at todays stock price are worth about $21,011.  Who's pocket does these shares line?
• TWU stole an additional 9% of each and every hard working TWU members equity shares to line their and the their Lawyers pockets

AMTS wake up.  It's so bad for us that the company doesn't even have us on the drawing board for new uniforms.  This is all because of the TWU.
The TWU knows that the new management will perform AIRBUS phase Cks on the line.  That's what and how the USAir management performs maintenance in order to reduce cost.  USAir outsources 65% of maintenance spend.  They only perform 35% of in house maintenance.  The company will through you a few carrots to make you bite like a bunny. Then they will snare you in the trap. As the MD80's dwindled down, the work will also.  The majority of the Airbus work will go to the same MROs that USAir currently utilizes. Those MROs are in the US and central America.
 
People wake up, The Worst Union (TWU) are simply dues collectors, they will milk us like cows.  They have no intention of working for us to achieve a contract that is fair and equitable. Fact, IT DOES NOT MATTER TO THE TWU IF THEY HAVE 24,000 FLEET SERVICE OR 24,000 AMTs!  The dues are essentially the same.  Fact, THE TWU LEADERSHIP WE NOW HAVE IS A BUNCH OF GUYS THAT ARE BUS DRIVERS OR SUBWAY CLERKS!  Fact, TWU is akin to a communist party, they believe in the greatest good for the greatest number of people. There is no bone of meritocracy in their body.  Democracy is not in their vocabulary, it can't be, because it's not what they stand for!
 
More to come, I'm not done yet. By the way smarty pants, if you find any misspelled words let me know.  I didn't use spell check
 
 
AMFA NOW MORE THAN EVER

 

[AANOTOK]

Just to clarify the us vs them....
 
"TWU got us reduced VC from 7 weeks down to 5 weeks.  However, fleet service keep their six weeks VC". False, we still only have 5 weeks max.
 
"TWU got us first two days of sick time at half pay, now first day at half pay.  The fleet service keep theirs at full pay for the years before bankruptcy". True, and although AA wanted to give us the same formula you guys currently have with your sick policy on our BK contract, we were forced to give them something else (more jobs) to retain full pay for sick time days. I honestly cannot believe a union would allow a company to even bring that kind of verbiage in contract talks, let alone leave it in as one of the concessions. Simply amazing to me...

 

[Rogallo]

More to come, I'm not done yet. By the way smarty pants, if you find any misspelled words let me know.  I didn't use spell check

 
Love it!