Continental VS WN

[skyguy25]

okay...we hear over and over again customer service blahblahblah...almost every major airline is now posting profits-without having that legendary Customer Service that Southwest boasts about all the time. Honestly, were else would people go for 49.00 each way.. the LUV brings loyal customers yes where are the big profits. Lets look at Continental...and before its comes up, yes they have been to BK court, but aside for sake of arguement lets look at a few things.:

CO has a traditional route hub and spoke network
assigned seats
very well compensated employees, great benefits, pension, profit sharing and employee bonus' that rival WN.
First Class cabins
IFE
Meals in coach, pillows, blankets, and great customer service
Varied A/C fleet
An express division
International as well as domestic routes
A great rewards program
Pricing is excellent
On-time record decent, cargo, baggage, ect..
AND their fuel is NOT hedged like WN's YET THEY ARE consistantly making more $$$$$ on less revenue.

How is CO able to have everything listed above, while NOT being the world's largest in terms of passenger movement and make more money...its sad if you think that it takes 11 million more passengers to still make less than continental with above mentioned amenitites..... Im not insinuating anything, just thinking.... any thoughts?

 

[KCFlyer]

okay...we hear over and over again customer service blahblahblah...almost every major airline is now posting profits-without having that legendary Customer Service that Southwest boasts about all the time. Honestly, were else would people go for 49.00 each way.. the LUV brings loyal customers yes where are the big profits. Lets look at Continental...and before its comes up, yes they have been to BK court, but aside for sake of arguement lets look at a few things.:

CO has a traditional route hub and spoke network
assigned seats
very well compensated employees, great benefits, pension, profit sharing and employee bonus' that rival WN.
First Class cabins
IFE
Meals in coach, pillows, blankets, and great customer service
Varied A/C fleet
An express division
International as well as domestic routes
A great rewards program
Pricing is excellent
On-time record decent, cargo, baggage, ect..
AND their fuel is NOT hedged like WN's YET THEY ARE consistantly making more $$$$$ on less revenue.

How is CO able to have everything listed above, while NOT being the world's largest in terms of passenger movement and make more money...its sad if you think that it takes 11 million more passengers to still make less than continental with above mentioned amenitites..... Im not insinuating anything, just thinking.... any thoughts?

One minor correction...two bankruptcies in there. Here's one thing though...none of that is available on flights like MCI-CLE...and a few MCI-EWR flights which are operated on regional jets.

 

[BoeingBoy]

AND their fuel is NOT hedged like WN's YET THEY ARE consistantly making more $$$$$ on less revenue.

Not to take anything away from CO, but you've got 2 errors in that one statement.....

- Using the word "consistently" is an error. Name any airline that can approach WN's years or quarters of consistent profitability.

- WN's revenues are consistently lower than CO's.

Jim

 

[BuffaloJoe]

One minor correction...two bankruptcies in there. Here's one thing though...none of that is available on flights like MCI-CLE...and a few MCI-EWR flights which are operated on regional jets.

Oh boy! Do I smell WN going into EWR? PHL is bad for delays! I could see TTN or ABE, the latter being more likely. But then again who would ever think they fly into PHL, SFO and DEN.

 

[KCFlyer]

Oh boy! Do I smell WN going into EWR? PHL is bad for delays! I could see TTN or ABE, the latter being more likely. But then again who would ever think they fly into PHL, SFO and DEN.

You know that Southwest ad...is it a big plane? Point being, CO is using quite a few SMALL planes that don't have most of the amenities cited in the original post. Not taking anything away from CO, except for perhaps their two bankruptcies, but how ticked off would you be if you, as a customer booked CO because of First Class cabins, IFE, Meals in coach, pillows, blankets, and find out you're on an RJ with none of those? Especially on a routing that is halfway across the country?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I still don't really get that ad. I haven't seen it, maybe I would if I saw it. I mean... compared to an RJ, sure. But I don't really think of a 73 when I hear "big" plane.

How is CO able to have everything listed above, while NOT being the world's largest in terms of passenger movement and make more money...its sad if you think that it takes 11 million more passengers to still make less than continental with above mentioned amenitites..... Im not insinuating anything, just thinking.... any thoughts?

I think it's kinda silly to compare a LCC with a legacy on the reasons you listed... they don't even offer the same products on the same routes. I think two different kinds of passengers will want different products suited to their needs. But that's just me.

- astra

 

[skyguy25]

I don't agree.. at least out of CLE - the routes that CO goes head to head with WN, they do use mainline aircraft with the exception of MDW and certain times they do utilize mainline A/C on the BWI route- and pricing is generally exactly the same. You are going to PHX or LAS or MCO you get all the above mentioned amenities with the same low pricing as WN. it is apples to apples when comparing routes and aircraft. All i was saying that a "legacy" carrier offers a better product on routes directly competed against and is not bleeding. Sure you can say UA or NW matches prices, but they do not have the ability to financially sustain in the mannar in which CO can and has. Its sad that an LCC has to enplane that many more people to not make as much on more revenue. So how does the commonality of aircraft really help WN? Hows does not having IFE really help WN? doesn't seem to hurt Continental. Get a new plane already and fly across the pond....something has to give at WN something big is about to happen.....Kelley mentioned late last year that 4th quarter 2007 huge changes will be announced and that aquisitions were not out of the question. WN just mortaged 16 A/C to the tune of 500,000,000. for what with billions in the bank? oh well....guess this is just stream of consciouesness

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

You know that Southwest ad...is it a big plane?

:huh:

Did WN suddenly acquire some widebodies that I'm not aware of?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Hows does not having IFE really help WN? doesn't seem to hurt Continental.

IFE systems can be pretty expensive to install and maintain, especially with a fleet as big as WN's. You're talking about a huge capital investment here that could be hard to justify. I agree with you, though... which is probably why I've never paid for a ticket on WN, especially for longer flights. Frontier has IFE and has been a cash cow, regardless of the benefits it has sublimating pax!

 

[KCFlyer]

:huh:

Did WN suddenly acquire some widebodies that I'm not aware of?

You really need to watch the ad. RJ's are great for short flights that replace a turboprop, but when you start flying MCI-SLC or MCI-CLT and it's an RJ...it gets a bit uncomfortable after a while.

 

[johnnyfleet]

You really need to watch the ad. RJ's are great for short flights that replace a turboprop, but when you start flying MCI-SLC or MCI-CLT and it's an RJ...it gets a bit uncomfortable after a while.

Actually I prefer an EMB145 to a 737 especially if you sit in the A seat and have both a window and aisle, a middle seat on a 737 is the worst!

 

[KCFlyer]

Actually I prefer an EMB145 to a 737 especially if you sit in the A seat and have both a window and aisle, a middle seat on a 737 is the worst!

Johnny, at 6'4, looking out the window of ANY RJ is out of the question for me unless I want to visit a chiropractor upon landing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

it is apples to apples when comparing routes and aircraft.

You're looking at a small part of the overall picture and jumping to the conclusion that the operations are an "apples to apples" comparison.

Even on the same route with the same plane, CO undoubtedly sells some seats for more than WN - F/C for example. That ends the "apples to apples" comparison.

There are undoubtedly CO passengers who connected from non-WN markets who may have paid more than "WN fares". That ends the "apples to apples" comparison.

Half of CO's revenues come from international flights - a significant revenue source that WN doesn't have. Take that revenue away and CO loses money. That ends the "apples to apples" comparison.

In short, you can't just say "WN and CO charge the same on this route or that" and draw any conclusions - other than that CO competes vigorously with WN. The two business models are just too different to make an "apples to apples" comparison.

Finally, it's easy to ask "Why doesn't WN make as much as network carrier X" when times are good, with the implication being that WN is having problems. For consistency, you should really also ask "Why isn't network carrier X profitable like WN" when times are bad. Would you care to compare WN's financial results for the last 10 years with WN's?

Jim

 

[JS]

okay...we hear over and over again customer service blahblahblah...almost every major airline is now posting profits-without having that legendary Customer Service that Southwest boasts about all the time. Honestly, were else would people go for 49.00 each way.. the LUV brings loyal customers yes where are the big profits. Lets look at Continental...and before its comes up, yes they have been to BK court, but aside for sake of arguement lets look at a few things.:

CO has a traditional route hub and spoke network
assigned seats
very well compensated employees, great benefits, pension, profit sharing and employee bonus' that rival WN.
First Class cabins
IFE
Meals in coach, pillows, blankets, and great customer service
Varied A/C fleet
An express division
International as well as domestic routes
A great rewards program
Pricing is excellent
On-time record decent, cargo, baggage, ect..
AND their fuel is NOT hedged like WN's YET THEY ARE consistantly making more $$$$$ on less revenue.

How is CO able to have everything listed above, while NOT being the world's largest in terms of passenger movement and make more money...its sad if you think that it takes 11 million more passengers to still make less than continental with above mentioned amenitites..... Im not insinuating anything, just thinking.... any thoughts?

CO has highly compensated employees? That's news to me. I thought they slashed wages in bankruptcy.

CO does not have a great rewards program. It's TERRIBLE! Continental's frequent flier program is the absolute worst! In theory, I can use my Delta SkyMiles on a CO flight. How many times have I been able to find a seat? Zero! The award rules also screw you over on CO Micronesia flights. They know it and they don't care.

I honestly don't know why people sing the praises of CO. I have three airlines on my personal "no-fly" list on account of terrible customer service -- United, Northwest, and Continental. I'll drive 3,000 miles before I fly any of those three.

 

[johnnyfleet]

CO has highly compensated employees? That's news to me. I thought they slashed wages in bankruptcy.

1983 & 1990 a long time ago things have changed.