Council 70 AFA Meeting!

[sharktooth]

I think a total resignation of them all is in order. The entire local council has been turned into a circus. Let the membership elect new representation. If TG is all that she says, then she can throw her name into the hat in a new election.

Agreed. about the circus.

I believe, like Bush and Iraq, that the MECP and Pat Friendless were misled (mainly due to their own incompetance concerning managing groups of groups of people) about the circus in PHL for quite a while. I believe, from the resulting and apparent incoherant actions of the MECP, that he and the Intl Pres. are backpedaling and trying to find traction with any "decision" that most closely conforms to their grossly changed perception of PHL reality.

Unfortunately, PHL has a history of cutting deals with individuals rather than dealing with organizations. It seems to be the backbone of the Jerry Glass anti-labour strategy, to isolate and deprecate. I mean, it works great in POW camps. It may work in CLT or PHX but only leads to long term chaos in PHL.

TG, MH and ME understand this. LA, most decidedly, does not. In fact, one can honestly say that LA conscienously plays into this line of action, causing undue waste when TG, MH and ME have to go out and put out those fires.

TG last received AFA compensation on 9Jul06. The three to four days per week she puts into AFA have been uncompensated since.

 

[Itestwell]

Agreed. about the circus.

I believe, like Bush and Iraq, that the MECP and Pat Friendless were misled (mainly due to their own incompetance concerning managing groups of groups of people) about the circus in PHL for quite a while. I believe, from the resulting and apparent incoherant actions of the MECP, that he and the Intl Pres. are backpedaling and trying to find traction with any "decision" that most closely conforms to their grossly changed perception of PHL reality.

Unfortunately, PHL has a history of cutting deals with individuals rather than dealing with organizations. It seems to be the backbone of the Jerry Glass anti-labour strategy, to isolate and deprecate. I mean, it works great in POW camps. It may work in CLT or PHX but only leads to long term chaos in PHL.

TG, MH and ME understand this. LA, most decidedly, does not. In fact, one can honestly say that LA conscienously plays into this line of action, causing undue waste when TG, MH and ME have to go out and put out those fires.

TG last received AFA compensation on 9Jul06. The three to four days per week she puts into AFA have been uncompensated since.

Do you know if the recalls were indeed ruled out of order? If so, is there a next step being planned?

Thanks for any insight....

 

[sharktooth]

Do you know if the recalls were indeed ruled out of order? If so, is there a next step being planned?

Thanks for any insight....

Apologize if I created confusion. I tried to be careful about the difference between "recall" and "resignation", two different actions.

I do know that, generally, a conditional resignation (especially oral) is not considered appropriate, much less binding. I say "generally" because AFA has a history of overruling their own Constitution and Bylaws. It remains to the membership to keep AFA straight.

Sorry to be so nonspecific. The good part is, AFA can rule all they want, but the group always has a right to establish their own rules, as long as those rules violate no governmental rulings. (Can't go lynch someone, at least, for now)

Example:

The LECVP and LECST of Council 70, in accordance with AFA Constitution and Bylaws, each wrote a letter asking for a meeting, to be held last August, to consider a recall ballot for the LECP. That is the published procedure. Those requests were finally overruled by the AFA Intl Secretary, stating that that procedure had not been used in months, that the most recent means of calling such a meeting was one third of the group was to sign a petition requesting such a meeting and therefore AFA was relying on "past practice" in a rather transparent ploy IMO to delay the inevitable. (Perhaps they bought into the LA lies that this was simply a "hot-headed, he said/she said", moment.) However, it seems the MECP got an eyeful otherwise at the 30Oct meeting.

 

[USAguy97]

Apologize if I created confusion. I tried to be careful about the difference between "recall" and "resignation", two different actions.

I do know that, generally, a conditional resignation (especially oral) is not considered appropriate, much less binding. I say "generally" because AFA has a history of overruling their own Constitution and Bylaws. It remains to the membership to keep AFA straight.

Sorry to be so nonspecific. The good part is, AFA can rule all they want, but the group always has a right to establish their own rules, as long as those rules violate no governmental rulings. (Can't go lynch someone, at least, for now)

Example:

The LECVP and LECST of Council 70, in accordance with AFA Constitution and Bylaws, each wrote a letter asking for a meeting, to be held last August, to consider a recall ballot for the LECP. That is the published procedure. Those requests were finally overruled by the AFA Intl Secretary, stating that that procedure had not been used in months, that the most recent means of calling such a meeting was one third of the group was to sign a petition requesting such a meeting and therefore AFA was relying on "past practice" in a rather transparent ploy IMO to delay the inevitable. (Perhaps they bought into the LA lies that this was simply a "hot-headed, he said/she said", moment.) However, it seems the MECP got an eyeful otherwise at the 30Oct meeting.

Well I agree that Pat Friend and Ed Gilmartin are behind this one. I believe that MF and LA said it was ok because they didnt know any different until it was talked about after the meeting with those two. Pat is trying to cover her ass and trying to keep her Pension and retirement so she doesnt have to go back to flying at UAL. I know that Pat and Ed have said things couldn't happen because of Past Practice BS. If it is in the C&B that is the way the business should operate. Pat is just wanting to get the votes to keep her in office and that is just sad. It is time for the Members to take back the union and not let Pat Friend, Ed Gilmartin, MF or LA to dictact to us the UNION. I think they forget who the union is! I encourage everyone to attend this meeting on Mon and lets show them how serious we are about taking our Union back and making them accountable!

 

[PITbull]

Apologize if I created confusion. I tried to be careful about the difference between "recall" and "resignation", two different actions.

I do know that, generally, a conditional resignation (especially oral) is not considered appropriate, much less binding. I say "generally" because AFA has a history of overruling their own Constitution and Bylaws. It remains to the membership to keep AFA straight.

Here's the main point, the resignation was in the form of a motion (accepted by the LECP as the chairperson of that meeting) was recorded, seconded, and voted on by the members and agreed by the Local officers.

What's the problem?

I can't see how that motion can be out of order if the chariperson has initiated it, accepted the motion with no challenges, allows a scond and a vote.

Someone help me here. Who is challenging this? The MECP? The LECP? Little late to rescind when the meeting concluded for that session is on record.

This was not a "recall", but rather a condition for resignation to commence on Dec. 1, 2006. Write to the International and let them know THEY ARE WRONG!

AFA International is full of s%^&!. And they don't believe the members will challenge their self perceived authority over a local base. The MECP is behind this and moving in the direction to validate the nonsense of the International officers.

You all should be writing to Laura (since she is your rep at the BOD and voting on your behalf) that you do not want her to vote your votes to Pat Friend, Alin Boswell or Kevin Creighton.Pat running reelection unapposed, but your vote can be abstained, Alin, DCA LECP (whose an a**, and can't represent an arugment for a fine from a broken parking meter to a magistrate, and Kevin Crighton, AFA Sec/Treas running again for the postion.

VOTE NO! Let Laura know that you don't want your vote used on behalf of these nominees.

 

[sharktooth]

Here's the main point, the resignation was in the form of a motion (accepted by the LECP as the chairperson of that meeting) was recorded, seconded, and voted on by the members and agreed by the Local officers.

What's the problem?

I can't see how that motion can be out of order if the chariperson has initiated it, accepted the motion with no challenges, allows a scond and a vote.

Never seen it done that way.

A chairperson should never initiate/propose a resolution, especially when they are directly involved in it. Even if someone else codified the initiation into a resolution (where is it?) were the participants asked for challenges or questions? Who seconded the motion?

Even if someone from the floor moved for her resignation, she should have temporarily ceded the gavel (control of the meeting) to someone (the VP) to deal with a matter she should have recused herself from.

Had I been there, I would have been jumping up and down with "point of order"s.

Someone help me here. Who is challenging this? The MECP? The LECP? Little late to rescind when the meeting concluded for that session is on record.

Not certain who is challenging this. As pointed out above, any one person would be on very good grounds to challenge this, for any number of reasons.

Also, this was only half the meeting. If there was a crafted resolution, it would have to pass, yet again, all the obstacles it should have hurdled the first time.

This was not a "recall", but rather a condition for resignation to commence on Dec. 1, 2006. Write to the International and let them know THEY ARE WRONG!

I think conditional resignations are improper. Either one resigns or one does not.

AFA International is full of s%^&!. And they don't believe the members will challenge their self perceived authority over a local base. The MECP is behind this and moving in the direction to validate the nonsense of the International officers.

That may very well be so. AFA Intl should only be available for questions of procedure and should not be directing the action in any way.

You all should be writing to Laura (since she is your rep at the BOD and voting on your behalf) that you do not want her to vote your votes to Pat Friend, Alin Boswell or Kevin Creighton.Pat running reelection unapposed, but your vote can be abstained, Alin, DCA LECP (whose an a**, and can't represent an arugment for a fine from a broken parking meter to a magistrate, and Kevin Crighton, AFA Sec/Treas running again for the postion.

VOTE NO! Let Laura know that you don't want your vote used on behalf of these nominees.

I wonder if LA has already cut her deal with the devil.

 

[beachboy]

Talk about the plot thickening! I just got an email about some of the material on ethics charges Laura was freely passing out during this meeting. It apparently named specific flight attendants involved in terminations and grievances!
This is probably one of the most egregious things I have seen on her part yet. What was she thinking violating peoples confidentiality in the process in such a way? She has got to go like yesterday. :down: GET HER OUT and if AFA had any brains they would remove her post haste.

 

[careerfurloughee]

If you have copies of this information perhaps you could get the company to do your work for you. Unauthorized release of personnel records is probably cause for termination, union leader or not. Might be grounds for a lawsuit against AFA and whomever distributed the stuff, it all depends. Thankfully I'm not a lawyer.

Certainly worth checking into folks.

Was thinking the same thing. I wonder how deep the AFA purses are?

 

[beachboy]

Below is the eline LA sent out last night. This is not exactly how things went down and omits much of the other motions that were brought forward. What seems very unfair with a split meeting is if new business is brought forward at this meeting it can't really go anywhere because both meetings must "mirror" each other. Basically LA screwed everyone in attendance of the November 6th meeting. She really is off her rocker. :huh:
___________________________________________________________
All Local Officers to Step Down
Dear Members,

The first of 2 Local Council Meetings was held on Monday, October 30, 2006 at the Marriott PHL Airport. The meeting lasted from 11:00 until 2:30. Mike Flores, the MEC President was the guest speaker and he gave a synopsis on the 24/7 ruling and a negotiations update.





I made a motion that all the Local Officers, myself, Terry Graf, and Mariellen Horgan, (President, Vice-President, Secretary respectively) resign as of December 1, 2006. The motion was seconded and passed. In order for this motion to be upheld, it also must be brought forth at the next meeting on November 6, 2006 1:00 - 4:00 at the Marriott.

A motion was made by Andrew Perkins, seconded and passed to have the LEC President send out an e-line every week detailing all time spent working in the AFA Office by the Officers and by all volunteers. This motion must also be brought forward at the next meeting.

A motion was made by Celine Deluca, seconded and passed to call for a Special Meeting for the purpose of balloting the Council 70 flight attendants for a Recall of the LEC President. I called this motion out of order, as per the AFA International Office and a ruling by the Executive Board. Even if it is brought forth at the next meeting I will still call it out of order and the International Office will rule on it.



Laura Albert
LEC President

 

[Lovethesun]

For Your Infomation A@@ Wipe!! I Was On One Of The Union Committees For A While! So Eat It!! You MUST Be Drinking The Terri Graff KoolAid!

PHLfa88......you were on a committee a very SHORT while weren't you and you stunk at it. People like you are the ones that we do not want to be in a position to represent us. Have to say TG has spent alot of time and energy representing flight attendants and it is a very thankless job. So when you spend as much time and energy as she or any other union representative has then you can speak up and say that you were activitly involved.

 

[aredeeyou22]

PHLfa88......you were on a committee a very SHORT while weren't you and you stunk at it. People like you are the ones that we do not want to be in a position to represent us. Have to say TG has spent alot of time and energy representing flight attendants and it is a very thankless job. So when you spend as much time and energy as she or any other union representative has then you can speak up and say that you were activitly involved.

Maybe he/she called too many people "A@@wipe" when he/she answered the phone? Sounds like another officer currently in office in PHL (Until 12/01, of course ).... what a team they would have been!

 

[PITbull]

Below is the eline LA sent out last night. This is not exactly how things went down and omits much of the other motions that were brought forward. What seems very unfair with a split meeting is if new business is brought forward at this meeting it can't really go anywhere because both meetings must "mirror" each other. Basically LA screwed everyone in attendance of the November 6th meeting. She really is off her rocker. :huh:
___________________________________________________________
All Local Officers to Step Down
Dear Members,

The first of 2 Local Council Meetings was held on Monday, October 30, 2006 at the Marriott PHL Airport. The meeting lasted from 11:00 until 2:30. Mike Flores, the MEC President was the guest speaker and he gave a synopsis on the 24/7 ruling and a negotiations update.





I made a motion that all the Local Officers, myself, Terry Graf, and Mariellen Horgan, (President, Vice-President, Secretary respectively) resign as of December 1, 2006. The motion was seconded and passed. In order for this motion to be upheld, it also must be brought forth at the next meeting on November 6, 2006 1:00 - 4:00 at the Marriott.

A motion was made by Andrew Perkins, seconded and passed to have the LEC President send out an e-line every week detailing all time spent working in the AFA Office by the Officers and by all volunteers. This motion must also be brought forward at the next meeting.

A motion was made by Celine Deluca, seconded and passed to call for a Special Meeting for the purpose of balloting the Council 70 flight attendants for a Recall of the LEC President. I called this motion out of order, as per the AFA International Office and a ruling by the Executive Board. Even if it is brought forth at the next meeting I will still call it out of order and the International Office will rule on it.
Laura Albert
LEC President

Laura did not say WHY the motion was ruled "out of order" in her e-line, nor did she say in the meeting. The motion was "out of order" because in the AFA Constitution the motion SHOULD read: I move to DIRECT THE LOCAL COUNCIL PRESIDENT to call a "special meeting of the local council memebers" for the purpose of a "recall of the Local council president of Local 70, no earlier than 14 days from Nov. 6 and no later than Dec. 15, 2006; someone second the motion, vote.

If the motion would have read to DIRECT THE LECP to call for...
then NO ONE COULD RULE IT OUT OF ORDER. The original motion was the members calling a special meeting, and according to the constitution and bylaws the members can ONLY direct the LECP to call a "special meeting"; the members can't call a special meeting themselves.

Pat Freind is going to send an Agenda Item to the BOD floor regarding amending the C&B to make it MORE difficult for members of a council to "recall" a lcal officer.

If this gets passed then the union is not longer for the members, by the members and not a democratic organization; but rather an autocratic cash-flowing enterprise.

 

[sharktooth]

Laura did not say WHY the motion was ruled "out of order" in her e-line, nor did she say in the meeting. The motion was "out of order" because in the AFA Constitution the motion SHOULD read: I move to DIRECT THE LOCAL COUNCIL PRESIDENT to call a "special meeting of the local council memebers" for the purpose of a "recall of the Local council president of Local 70, no earlier than 14 days from Nov. 6 and no later than Dec. 15, 2006; someone second the motion, vote.

Yes, you are correct. There are a number of reasons the motion is out of order. (am not familiar with details, overall, on the AFA Constitution)

1. Time and date certain need to be a part of it.

2. LA should have recused herself during a "vote".

3. It is conditional, its success depends on something else happening.

If the motion would have read to DIRECT THE LECP to call for...
then NO ONE COULD RULE IT OUT OF ORDER. The original motion was the members calling a special meeting, and according to the constitution and bylaws the members can ONLY direct the LECP to call a "special meeting"; the members can't call a special meeting themselves.

I'm confused. Are you saying the motion itself should have called for yet another meeting, this one devoted to calling for a recall. It seems that that could have been done during the Oct 30 meeting under new business, directing the LECP to hold a ballot for the purpose of recall.

Pat Freind is going to send an Agenda Item to the BOD floor regarding amending the C&B to make it MORE difficult for members of a council to "recall" a lcal officer.

If this gets passed then the union is not longer for the members, by the members and not a democratic organization; but rather an autocratic cash-flowing enterprise.

Only Pat would know the number of recall attempts. Making it more difficult will just add fuel to the fire. By not following their own Constitution, they have caused the beginning of a crisis. What they have done is rule the way they want it for Council 70, now they are going to "ask permission" for their illegal act at the board. Hope someone calls them out on this during the BOD.

Rule of Law!