DC-9: The end of an era is near
- Thread starter AdAstraPerAspera
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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IOW the M80s added fleet complexity without adding any real strategic benefit.
The DC9s for both DL and NW were low cost capacity that could easily be parked when demand fell or pushed back into the system at increased levels when demand was strong. The M80 for NW served the same purpose but added a lot of complexity that wasn't necessary.
DL's strategy of having a subset of older aircraft is precisely to have enough flex capacity that can be used when needed but which is low cost and paid for. DL and NW shared that same philosophy even before the merger.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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schedules on Delta.com show a DL flight 1965 operating on Jan 6 from DTW-MSP and a DL 2014 leaving MSP for ATL indicating perhaps the last 2 flights of the DC9 fleet touching all 3 of DL's largest hubs including NW's two largest and finishing at DL's largest hub and home with the flight numbers indicating the first year DL put the DC9 into service and the last flight number being the year of retirement.
Sharp.
Sharp.
LD3
Veteran
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
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"Delta Air Lines will park its last Douglas DC-9 airplanes as of Jan. 6, ending a long, long history for the airplanes. Delta’s DC-9s came as part of its 2008 marriage with Northwest Airlines, which loved the airplane.
Northwest in the early 1990s decided it would be more profitable to update its aging DC-9s than spend the money to buy all-new ones. Although less fuel efficient than newer airplanes, the DC-9s were otherwise cheap, and a lot cheaper than buying replacement airplanes.
In fact, Northwest bought up DC-9s from other airlines as those airlines were modernizing their fleets, adding to its own DC-9s. A bunch of Northwest’s DC-9s came in its 1986 merger with Republic Airlines.
Northwest’s total of DC-9s hit 180 in 1997 before it began retiring some of its oldest DC-9s. On Dec. 31, 2007, the last year before the Delta merger, Northwest still had 94 of the airplanes, which at that time averaged 35.6 years old."
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/its-the-end-of-the-line-for-deltas-i-e-northwests-dc-9-fleet.html/
Northwest in the early 1990s decided it would be more profitable to update its aging DC-9s than spend the money to buy all-new ones. Although less fuel efficient than newer airplanes, the DC-9s were otherwise cheap, and a lot cheaper than buying replacement airplanes.
In fact, Northwest bought up DC-9s from other airlines as those airlines were modernizing their fleets, adding to its own DC-9s. A bunch of Northwest’s DC-9s came in its 1986 merger with Republic Airlines.
Northwest’s total of DC-9s hit 180 in 1997 before it began retiring some of its oldest DC-9s. On Dec. 31, 2007, the last year before the Delta merger, Northwest still had 94 of the airplanes, which at that time averaged 35.6 years old."
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/its-the-end-of-the-line-for-deltas-i-e-northwests-dc-9-fleet.html/
Good riddance, along with the AA S80s pax think they are flying on a carrier from a third world country not a reputable, and solidly run carrier like DL. I mean seriously some of these A/C are approaching 40 years and the passenger are in awful condition. With that said even some of the former NWAs new/modern A320 aircraft are in pretty poor condition too. Recently flew N324US and it has certainly seen better days.
Josh
Josh
Kev3188
Veteran
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/feb/21/business/fi-planes21
The safety of the planes isn't an issue because of federally required maintenance, said Ed Greenslet, publisher of the Airline Monitor, a trade journal.
The Federal Aviation Administration doesn't care how old an aircraft is, just how many times it has been flown. It measures that by the number of times it has been pressurized and depressurized -- generally, once per flight. The DC-9, based on testing, is approved for 105,000 of these cycles.
"Putting a plane down is much different when you own it than when you're paying $330,000 per month" in debt payments for a new airplane, said Tom Bach, Northwest's vice president of market planning, who was closely involved in the research that went into the decision to refurbish the DC-9s, which were developed by Douglas Aircraft Co. and first flew in 1965.
Joel Denney, an airline analyst at Piper Jaffray in Minneapolis, agreed: "In a really difficult environment, you want to have very low fixed costs."
Northwest's reliance on DC-9s -- the aircraft accounts for more than a third of its 432-plane fleet -- gives it an average aircraft age of about 18 years, according to data provided by BACK Aviation Solutions of New Haven, Conn. That ties with Buenos Aires-based Aerolineas Argentinas for the oldest fleet among the world's top 60 airlines, according to BACK.
The Federal Aviation Administration doesn't care how old an aircraft is, just how many times it has been flown. It measures that by the number of times it has been pressurized and depressurized -- generally, once per flight. The DC-9, based on testing, is approved for 105,000 of these cycles.
Bach said some of Northwest's DC-9s were hitting that limit and being retired. In January, the company said it would retire 10 DC-9s this year.
In 1995, Northwest began updating its DC-9s, gutting the interiors and installing new carpeting, lavatories and seats. It also upgraded the planes' electronic and mechanical systems and installed "hush kits" so the engines were in compliance with airport noise limits.
Bach said comparable new planes at the time were running around $30 million, and the upgrades cost a fraction of that, though he said he was unsure exactly how much.
*passenger cabinsKev3188 said:
Yes the DC-9s are in awful condition and many of the 319/320 aircraft are too, despite having been refreshed with new carpet and blue leather seat covers when integrated with DL. Btw are there still plans in place for new seats and AVOD on the 319s?
Josh
Glenn Quagmire
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- Apr 30, 2012
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We had a DC-9-15 in the hangar at ATL for a heavy check (overhaul). If you don't know, the -15 was a cargo door version of a -10. The door had long been sealed shut as Southern/Republic/NWA did not use the DC-9 for any main deck cargo ops.
So It was the first time this aircraft had to have its fwd cargo door opened in a long time. To properly complete all the aging aircraft mods and inspections, the door had to be opened for inspection and all the structure inspected/reinforced. Of course it would not open. The a foreman came up with a plan. We basically cut all the sealant loose around the door, released all the latches, etc. He (and the rest of us) decided to the only way to "help" get the door to pop was to go ahead and put a little pressure on the cabin.
So that is how it was. I am not sure how much pressure differential was reached, but physics worked. The door blew open and swung up over the crown of the fuselage on its hinge and slammed back closed like a trash can lid! Blam, blam!
It was definitely one of those, "let's try this" , or "watch this" moments.
So It was the first time this aircraft had to have its fwd cargo door opened in a long time. To properly complete all the aging aircraft mods and inspections, the door had to be opened for inspection and all the structure inspected/reinforced. Of course it would not open. The a foreman came up with a plan. We basically cut all the sealant loose around the door, released all the latches, etc. He (and the rest of us) decided to the only way to "help" get the door to pop was to go ahead and put a little pressure on the cabin.
So that is how it was. I am not sure how much pressure differential was reached, but physics worked. The door blew open and swung up over the crown of the fuselage on its hinge and slammed back closed like a trash can lid! Blam, blam!
It was definitely one of those, "let's try this" , or "watch this" moments.
Haha! That would have been great to watch. I bet it snowed and cooled off nicely in there once you dumped all the pressure, depending on how high the psid was.Glenn Quagmire said:
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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The 319s and 320s are both supposed to get new seats - slimlines and another row or more similar to what was done on other fleets.
From what I have heard, the 319s will get AVODs because they are being prepped to do more Central America flying while the 320s will not since there are no plans to take them off outside of the continental US where WiFi is available. DL's current plans seem to be not to put AVOD on any fleet that flies or will fly exclusively over the continental US.
Pilots seem to be more and more convinced that additional 757s will be retained in the fleet that had been planned for retirement, making the 739s growth aircraft. Pilot hiring is also supposed to kick into high gear.
I'm not sure it is worth arguing about one week before the retirement of the DC9, but very few passengers could tell that they were not on any other modern airliner. It was well-maintained and comfortable for the 1-2 hour flights that it did. The fact that the DC9 remained in service as long as it did given how bad its fuel burn is relative to newer aircraft is proof that older, less fuel efficient aircraft can economically be kept in service, esp. to provide low cost flex capacity during peak periods.
Post AA/US merger, DL appears committed to retaining enough low cost flex capacity in the fleet to be able to grow as long as general economic conditions justify it. If the economy tanks, DL can pull capacity and keep the newer, more fuel-efficient aircraft flying.
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
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The DC-9, for me, was a much nicer alternative to the RJ. I always felt comfortable on the nine. Maybe it was because I had literally worked on each and every one of them in the NWA fleet. I always kept a little notebook with tail numbers and the work I did every day on each aircraft (not just DC-9's).
Here is another war story:
I remember flying home from DTW on a -10 that me and a crew mate did an extensive, tricky repair on a pressure bulkhead crack (plug door type).
There was no SRM fix for it. We looked at the crack, drew up the repair proposal and sent it to the engineer. He drew it and sent it Douglas, who then had it approved with the FAA.
We fabricated the parts from raw aluminum we brought with us with wood forms from previous jobs. Heat treated them, drilled up and installed. After working about 24 hours straight , we took a quick nap in the exit rows waiting on the crew, they brought the plane and us back to ATL with full pax.
That is what being an A&P is/was all about in that era.
Here is another war story:
I remember flying home from DTW on a -10 that me and a crew mate did an extensive, tricky repair on a pressure bulkhead crack (plug door type).
There was no SRM fix for it. We looked at the crack, drew up the repair proposal and sent it to the engineer. He drew it and sent it Douglas, who then had it approved with the FAA.
We fabricated the parts from raw aluminum we brought with us with wood forms from previous jobs. Heat treated them, drilled up and installed. After working about 24 hours straight , we took a quick nap in the exit rows waiting on the crew, they brought the plane and us back to ATL with full pax.
That is what being an A&P is/was all about in that era.
robbedagain
Veteran
glenn i enjoyed flying as a pax on the dc 9 when i was a kid also loved hearing the engine on the 9s the dc9 nwa lost at dtw with the collision with a 727 was that a 32 series dc9?
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