Delta and WestJet plans for joint adventure

Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines' started by swamt, Dec 6, 2017 at 10:20 AM.

  1. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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  2. eolesen

    eolesen Veteran

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    Interesting. That could have been Southwest if they had just gotten their crap together back in 2011....
     
  3. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Yes E, I agree 100%. But I also think the SWA Pilots were too demanding as I remember it back then, but not positive.
     
  4. topDawg

    topDawg Veteran

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    #4 topDawg, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:28 AM
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 3:37 AM
    yep, all these JVs have been a total positive for US labor. Unions should get out of the way....

    Oh and BTW, RJs are great for US labor too.
    Actually the pilots were willing to allow limited codesharing but your res system (still an issue) couldn't handle it.

    You are better for it. JVs have been pretty terrible for US labor. Flat at best but most of the time it cost US jobs.

    and just before E even says it,
    Delta/Northwest's international long haul fleet at the merger - was right around ~150
    Delta's long haul fleet at the end of the year will be around ~142. It will go up some because of the 5 350s that come next year but I believe 2-3 more 767-300ERs will be parked before the summer season also. No idea what the back half of the year will look like but there will be 3-4 more non-FADEC CF6 powered 763s flying around Delta will want gone.
     
  5. eolesen

    eolesen Veteran

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    #5 eolesen, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:41 AM
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 6:49 AM
    I suspect the size of DL's fleet today is related to the NRT hub going away more than anything related to JV's.

    Does your number of 150 include the 15 freighters? I'm assuming not.
     
  6. topDawg

    topDawg Veteran

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    Not as much as you would think. The major of NRT routes have been replaced over SEA and DTW. NRT to the US is mostly flat on routes but again smaller aircraft. (more 330/777/767 no 747)

    Everyone forgets all Northwest had that wasn't to Japan was DTW-PVG and SEA-PEK. Also it was post merger that routes like NRT-SGN, JFK, ROR and some others were started.

    Plus added flying of ATL-PVG*/ICN, DTW-PEK/ICN, SEA-PVG/ICN/HKG Plus most of the NRT/HND-US flying is still there, IIRC only SFO-NRT has been cut so far.

    On the flip side on the TATL market,
    We (ATL) have lost CPH, ARN, TLV, ATH, SVO, VIE, MAN and routes like BRU, MXP, PRG are all seasonal now.
    JFK has also become more seasonal and has lost some flights to places like MAN, ARN, SVO etc.

    And a good bit of the "replacement" flying is going away. EWR-CDG, ORD-CDG, LAX-LHR and some others are all gone/shifted to JV partners.

    No. Was talking about the PAX fleet.
    The JV's didn't have anything to do with the 747-200Fs going away. That was due to the weak cargo demand and the general draw down of Asia crap flying NW did.
     
  7. robbedagain

    robbedagain Veteran

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    Dawg. When DL begins the IND-CDG run is that from a previous route they took away? Also Ive heard DL is discontinued or will discontinue the PHL to CDG
     
  8. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    #8 jimntx, Dec 9, 2017 at 7:47 AM
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 7:58 AM
    Not trying to be tacky, but IND to CDG? That is not a route I would have ever thought could make it. What is to be the frequency on this route?
     
  9. Tom Talbert 1888

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  10. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    Well, there's one thing to be said for that route that may make it a resounding success...as this is the only trans-Atlantic flight from IND, you certainly won't have those "evacuation of Leningrad" scenes in Customs and Immigration upon your return to the U.S. I have always thought that one of the success points for our (AA) RDU-LHR flight is the ability to clear Customs in a short time at RDU.

    IND could very well steal a little traffic from ORD and PHL if going through IND doesn't create a "multiple" domestic flight itinerary getting to/from IND.
     
  11. Tom Talbert 1888

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    Hey Eric,

    What’s the PDEW from IND-CDG?
     
  12. 737823

    737823 Veteran

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    Dawg, as someone I both respect and feels has a solid grasp of the big picture at DL and in the industry I’m very puzzled by your post here.

    I understand how tactically JBVs without adequate limitations and monitoring can be concerning for airline labor, but I don’t get the rest of your post.

    Capacity cuts on the whole are good for employees and all stakeholders except people purchasing tickets, boost yields and financial performance in the long run. Sure going from a 744 to an A359 may take ~120-150 seats out of the market and a few bid positions for F/As but working for a nimble, disciplined entity is in your interest. Do you remember when DL was flying their EIGHT 777s to MCO with low fare fodder? Sure some people liked bidding those trips on the big bird but it wasn’t an optimal allocation of company resources.

    The seasonal and other examples you cite from ATL/JFK id largely put in the same bucket. But it’s also worth noting when you mention things like ATL-BOM/TLV/KWI/ARN/VIE/EDI (whatever others) that was different era for DL and the whole “we must fly to every global city from ATL” experiment didn’t go over so well circa 2006-08.

    Like I said genuinely don’t mean to be inflammatory but I’m very puzzled by this posts although I recognize and appreciate your concerns on JBVs.

    Josh
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Tom Talbert 1888

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    Capacity cuts are not good for employees nor are joint ventures.

    It’s job losses and outsourcing.
     
  14. 737823

    737823 Veteran

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    Coming from USAIR it’s no surprise you don’t understand how JBVs work after all UA/CO/AC didn’t want US in their transatlantic JBV. In the case of AA DFW that is one example of where JBV has worked well for the base. BA/IB JBV enabled service to MAD since 05/2009 among with new seasonal flying to AMS.

    Josh
     
  15. Tom Talbert 1888

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    We were *A and we didn’t give up our flights to other carriers. But we did codeshare.
     

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