oh who knows anymore!BTW Dig, wonder where/what your dues are spent on?
well they cannot mix crews thats understandable but after the SOC has been issued can PMNW fly PMDL equipment with an active contract that states we follow PMNW pilots with their 5 year requirement? or can we fly your aircraft positioned at our bases, but PMDL would not deadhead and we fly it simply because the SOC is satisfied and we are trained and visa versa.I believe it is clear:
From Joanne's recent letter
"While all flight attendants will be qualified to fly all aircraft of the new Delta, we will not be able to mix crews until representation issues are resolved and we have one single seniority list. "
its sort of like multi-tasking,Why does every thread turn into a union thread?
the point or purpose of the airline is to transport you from point to point as of course that is the reason people fly!Why not talk about if we think these routes will make us money? That is the point of the airline.
its sort of like multi-tasking,
(you can talk about a lot of things at the same time)
(multi-taking...you learn that when you work on the DC9 or you will fast...)
the point or purpose of the airline is to transport you from point to point as of course that is the reason people fly!
then of course you want to be able to do that, fast, friendly and efficiently paying attention to all
the details at the same time!
keeping focused a sound business plans that is profitable in order to continue transporting people from point to point serving the communities while enabling success for all employees!
that's the whole point! not just the money its the customer service!
well in this particular venue its considered typing not talking!Actually, if you will look, Dignity, just likes to talk.
you are just precious!well. dignity responds like three times to every post... sad....
I was looking at this from the perspective from the initial comment regarding PMDL continuing to deadhead to PMNW bases to fly the 777. if that is the case there will be no PMNW Flight Attendant bidding the aircraft at all on a 777 at DTW (because we cannot bid together while having two separate seniority lists if that is still the case June 2010).A couple of things:
1. BB--what you quoted does NOT address the issue of whether PMDL f/a's can fly PMNW a/c on June 1, '10. It merely states that crews can not be mixed.
you are right it is grey..The way I read this, it is grey, not clear. (Surprise, surprise!) It does not address the possibility of f/a's flying each other's a/c though not together.
actually that is probably correct.2. Once the SOC is issued, NW pilots are conceivably Delta pilots. Remember, all of their representational and contractual issues are done.
So Dig, that is what is unclear. Your contract states that you must fly on a/c flown by NW pilots. Well, there aren't going to be NW pilots after the SOC is issued.
but a PMDL FA crew could staff a 744 out of JFK after an SOC?So if the above are indeed the case and f/a representational issues are not yet worked out, the JFK-TLV 744 flight would be staffed by former NW pilots (we know this because of the 747 fence) AND either PMNW f/a's OR PMDL f/a's.
I was looking at this from the perspective from the initial comment regarding PMDL continuing to deadhead to PMNW bases to fly the 777. if that is the case there will be no PMNW Flight Attendant bidding the aircraft at all on a 777 at DTW (because we cannot bid together while having two separate seniority lists if that is still the case June 2010).
you are right it is grey..
just because a 777 is at DTW does not mean the PMNW Flight Attendants will be assigned that aircraft (even though we may all be trained on all equipment) and as mentioned, minus a combined seniority list, it can be only a PMNW crew or PMDL crew.
clarification regarding staffing under the circumstance of unresolved representational issues at that time is needed..
(I guess)
actually that is probably correct.
just because we may not have representational issues resolved or a combined seniority list after a SOC has been issued, does not mean its still a separate operation anymore, because it wont be.
and there will be no more "NWA" pilots as they would all be considered "DAL" pilots after the SOC.
so that makes sense.
but a PMDL FA crew could staff a 744 out of JFK after an SOC?
(but it can only be either a PMDL FA crew, or PMNW FA crew)
until a combined list.
there would be really nothing preventing being assigned any aircraft.
right?
what is in our scope clause in regards to merger or successor.. we are to remain separate from the other group until there is a combined seniority list, but there is nothing really stating we cannot fly successor aircraft, we just have to be separate.Correct, Dig. The only thing is if the Merger & Acquisition language contained in your AFA contract says anything about the above scenario. We know what the Scope language says but is there anything else in the M&A language that would preclude the above from happening? I guess someone would have to look that up....
A couple of things:
1. BB--what you quoted does NOT address the issue of whether PMDL f/a's can fly PMNW a/c on June 1, '10. It merely states that crews can not be mixed. See the full quote below:
"All flight attendants from both pre-merger airlines will be trained to operate all aircraft types in the combined fleet when Aircraft Qualification (AQ) training is finished in March 2010. That means pre-merger Delta flight attendants will be qualified to fly the 747 and A330, and pre-merger Northwest flight attendants will be qualified to fly the 767 and 777, among others."
"While all flight attendants will be qualified to fly all aircraft of the new Delta, we will not be able to mix crews until representation issues are resolved and we have one single seniority list."
The way I read this, it is grey, not clear. (Surprise, surprise!) It does not address the possibility of f/a's flying each other's a/c though not together.
2. Once the SOC is issued, NW pilots are conceivably Delta pilots. Remember, all of their representational and contractual issues are done.
So Dig, that is what is unclear. Your contract states that you must fly on a/c flown by NW pilots. Well, there aren't going to be NW pilots after the SOC is issued.
So if the above are indeed the case and f/a representational issues are not yet worked out, the JFK-TLV 744 flight would be staffed by former NW pilots (we know this because of the 747 fence) AND either PMNW f/a's OR PMDL f/a's.
it doesn't seem very productive either..it is very grey.
it doesn't seem very productive either..
you have all Flight Attendants fully trained on all aircraft after an SOC.. PMNW may be able to fly all aircraft (based on qualifications) and PMDL as well.. but we cant fly with even 1 PMDL once you are down line/at the base/whereever..or a PMDL cannot fly with 1 PMNW either.
we all should know once you are out in the system, there are re-routes and rescheduling..it just seems not very efficient to me anyway..
to be down line somewhere, the need arises to be rescheduled..
but oh wait a minute, you cannot work an aircraft because there may be a PMDL crew assigned..and based on our contract must remain separate..
so you cannot work it.
of course the option to DH would be there but from a scheduling standpoint just doesn't make a lot of sense not utilizing crew members together on all aircraft after the SOC..
ya know?
