mrfish3726
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- Jul 7, 2004
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F9 Adds More Planes To It's Fleet!
- Thread starter mrfish3726
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A recipe for success, cut back on daily usage of your current Jets, while ordering even more..... :blink: 
this is a result of over expanding/ over ordering, and now FRNT will be paying the piper while it struggles to find a market that it can profitably operate therse aircraft in.
this is a result of over expanding/ over ordering, and now FRNT will be paying the piper while it struggles to find a market that it can profitably operate therse aircraft in.
Don't you think these aircraft are replacements for the Boeings as part of the previously announced fleet replacement plan, and they (the 737s) will go off the certificate when their leases expire?
Busdrvr said:A recipe for success, cut back on daily usage of your current Jets, while ordering even more..... :blink:
this is a result of over expanding/ over ordering, and now FRNT will be paying the piper while it struggles to find a market that it can profitably operate therse aircraft in.
[post="249058"][/post]
jimntx
Veteran
This is correct. IIRC, Frontier's plan is to become an all-Airbus fleet.bcp7 said:
C54Capt
Senior
Busdrvr said:
The CFO said the new Airbi are much cheaper to own or lease than the aged B-737. If that is true, I think it is a good plan.
C54Capt said:
Changing to a newer moree efficient fleet is smart, especially when you change the way you account for MX at the same time... (cash based, pay as you go instead of the more realistic by the hour calculations, ala Blu). The problem is continuing to take delivery of jets beyond the number you need to fly the schedule. And now FRNT will be looking for ways to deploy the Jets so as to limit losses, not make profits. All the while B1tching to the DEN Compost that UAL "has too much capacity"
:blink:C54Capt
Senior
Busdrvr said:Changing to a newer moree efficient fleet is smart, especially when you change the way you account for MX at the same time... (cash based, pay as you go instead of the more realistic by the hour calculations, ala Blu). The problem is continuing to take delivery of jets beyond the number you need to fly the schedule. And now FRNT will be looking for ways to deploy the Jets so as to limit losses, not make profits. All the while B1tching to the DEN Compost that UAL "has too much capacity"
[post="249278"][/post]
Busdrvr,
I agree with you on this one. I actually agree with you more often than not, but don't tell anybody I said that. Frontier started down an aggressive growth path and, like everyone else, was hammered by the events that have transpired in the industry over the past couple of years. Once "hard" aircraft orders are made it is difficult and expensive to cancel or even defer deliveries. The new aircraft deliveries have not hurt Frontier to this point, but once the Boeing replacement aircraft are delivered, future deliveries may be tougher to dispatch profitably. Frontier has hedged its planned capacity by reducing its original fleet plan by 8 aircraft over the next three years.
OP
mrfish3726
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- Jul 7, 2004
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BUS, SOOOOOOOO UniTED continuing to lose 4.5 to 5 MIL a day compared to F-9's 9.5K a day makes UniTED a more solvent carrier?????
As reported many times, any new aricraft arriving at Frontier is for the transition to an ALL AIRBUS fleet. These aren't system expansion aircraft, only replacement equipment for the older Boeings being returned. BUS you have MUCH MORE to WORRY about over there at UniTED than to worry about what NEW equipment F-9 is putting on line! Were are those numbers on TED I keep asking for BUS??? How much of that 155 MIL loss for JAN came from TED??????? SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!
As reported many times, any new aricraft arriving at Frontier is for the transition to an ALL AIRBUS fleet. These aren't system expansion aircraft, only replacement equipment for the older Boeings being returned. BUS you have MUCH MORE to WORRY about over there at UniTED than to worry about what NEW equipment F-9 is putting on line! Were are those numbers on TED I keep asking for BUS??? How much of that 155 MIL loss for JAN came from TED??????? SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!
mrfish3726 said:
Fish, I'll put it into the words you wife told me "wow big boy, size really DOES matter...."
As does noncash items such as depreciation. If you are 10 times as big, you can lose ten times as much, and STILL be in equivilent shoes. when you lease all your equipment, you must burn more cash than if you own it. but lets consider the "trend".January
UAL RASM UP 3.5%
FRNT RASM DOWN 7%
OP
mrfish3726
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- Jul 7, 2004
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Bus,
Obviously you don't know every thing about F-9's fleet. Just as UniTED has done F-9 has payed cash in GERMANY for the aircraft then worked out a lease back deal with one of the aircraft leasing/finacing companies. F-9 is not a purely leased fleet the same with UniTED. F-9 has full ownership of 16 Airbus aircraft there Bus. so in your analogy of RASM you can assume the same for fleet leases VS ownership to.
But as UniTED continues to lose 4.5 to 5 MIL a day, things are still going to get VERY interesting! With fuel going over $55 a barrel again, it doesn't look like the Spring Break season is going to bring UniTED any kind of relief!!!
Obviously you don't know every thing about F-9's fleet. Just as UniTED has done F-9 has payed cash in GERMANY for the aircraft then worked out a lease back deal with one of the aircraft leasing/finacing companies. F-9 is not a purely leased fleet the same with UniTED. F-9 has full ownership of 16 Airbus aircraft there Bus. so in your analogy of RASM you can assume the same for fleet leases VS ownership to.
But as UniTED continues to lose 4.5 to 5 MIL a day, things are still going to get VERY interesting! With fuel going over $55 a barrel again, it doesn't look like the Spring Break season is going to bring UniTED any kind of relief!!!
mrfish3726 said:Bus,
Obviously you don't know every thing about F-9's fleet. Just as UniTED has done F-9 has payed cash in GERMANY for the aircraft then worked out a lease back deal with one of the aircraft leasing/finacing companies. F-9 is not a purely leased fleet the same with UniTED. F-9 has full ownership of 16 Airbus aircraft there Bus. so in your analogy of RASM you can assume the same for fleet leases VS ownership to.
But as UniTED continues to lose 4.5 to 5 MIL a day, things are still going to get VERY interesting! With fuel going over $55 a barrel again, it doesn't look like the Spring Break season is going to bring UniTED any kind of relief!!!
[post="252670"][/post]
Very interesting? FRNT is parking the 737's they still have leased because the have too much lift? Is that why cash at FRNT went down by nearly 25% while current liabilities, also went WAY up? But look at the bright side, your yield, and working capital is plummeting, and unfortunately, UAL hedged a fair amount of fuel for Q1. Why are you now buying? Maybe because the lease terms got a little too "realistic"? Dang leasors make you prepay MX instead of taking the "warrenty holiday"
http://www.frontierairlines.com/news/artic.../pr_032005.news
C54Capt
Senior
Actually F-9 is leasing more aircraft than they are buying now, which is a deviation from the original plan of 1 for 1 buy/lease.
