IAM Fleet Service topic

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I agree with DV in LAS with regards to the language regarding outsourcing. I quote Section 1E.(e) paragraph 2, "The Company shall not, however, contract out work if such contracting out would result in a reduction in force/furlough for any employee covered by this Agreement. The section continues to say that economic reasons unrelated to contracting out work or a reduction in flights could lead to a furlough.

AWA attempted 6 months after closing cargo in CMH to sneak a furlough through and we won a grievance by PB in that station which won him months in back pay. Call CMH to verify.

yeah, i heard about that back pay award. JN from vegas told me. Trouble is when we get jester, mr and others trying to stir misinformation about it. I can understand if someone decides to vote yes, but we must make sure the right information is out there.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

Why don't you go to the source in LAS with someone who negotiated that contract and you will find out your sources are incorrect. DV is the man who you need to talk to.

Here's what he said regarding this BS that Canale has stirred,

To the IAM Membership,

There seems to be great confusion in regards to the outsourcing language and the intent in the TWU contract. I was personally one of the negotiating committee members. We are being told that the company can outsource a station if that station is losing money. In the talks that was never referenced except in regards to closing a whole station(for example MDW). This of course did not preclude the company from laying members off from that station for economic reasons. As long as that station had been a company fleet service station it would remain so. The company so agreed. There was no other intent either perceived or real that would change this. We did not base this on flight activity since there was a great risk in such an endevour as I am sure we can all see today. All I can say is : I was there and I know from the notes that I kept for the negotiating committee.

David Vincent

Dave Vincent's words to the membership to clear up the 'scope' rumors being spread by Canale

Jester, I can understand for some to vote yes because they need the raise, but voting yes based on ignorance is unacceptable.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]

Tim,

With all due respects to both you and Mr. Vincent, his notes are not legally binding and for that matter may have been misunderstood given the issue of Swissporting field stations was "In the talks that (to outsource a station?) never referenced except in regards to closing a whole station." (Although if a station is closed, why would the Company need Swissport services? Hmmm...) Respectfully, it sounds as if Mr. Vincent has a contradiction in his thinking and he is also assuming that no discussion means something as he understands the matter. This is how people get into legal challenges with high priced attorneys, but in the final analysis what has been signed within the contract is what will count (as we found out the hard way with the Change in Control issue).

If the TWU contract does have WRITTEN protections for those field stations, I hope those AGC's to be proven wrong. If someone might prove otherwise, I would be more than willing to review that section of the TWU contract.

So Respects Jester.

 

[Rock Bottom]

your company is set to lose over $200 million in this first quarter. I understand this contract is not what we want but you are correct in that it positions us for traditional bargaining in 2011. That's when the fight should occur.

Strange wording. Instead of saying OUR company this poster chooses to say YOUR company. I wonder why that is. Could it be that this poster doesn't work for our company? I don't know who this poster works for. All I know is that we must stand strong. Oil is too high, your darned right it's too high. Yell at congress to drill for more. We have it here in the States. Oil prices is not this bodies fault, what we need is a living wage! Not this fat cat getting fatter T/A. Oil is this nations problems not mine and my family. I need a contract that makes sense.

Men like Adams and Jefferson are rolling in their graves at the state of this country! They fought for what is right. They fought so that every man would have an equal say, not just the elite!

Remember the past and Predict the future.

 

[P. REZ]

Jester,

Here is some more proof of protection language.


I agree with DV in LAS with regards to the language regarding outsourcing. I quote Section 1E.(e) paragraph 2, "The Company shall not, however, contract out work if such contracting out would result in a reduction in force/furlough for any employee covered by this Agreement. The section continues to say that economic reasons unrelated to contracting out work or a reduction in flights could lead to a furlough.

AWA attempted 6 months after closing cargo in CMH to sneak a furlough through and we won a grievance by PB in that station which won him months in back pay. Call CMH to verify.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

With all due respects to both you and Mr. Vincent, his notes are not legally binding and for that matter may have been misunderstood given the issue of Swissporting field stations was "In the talks that (to outsource a station?) never referenced except in regards to closing a whole station." (Although if a station is closed, why would the Company need Swissport services? Hmmm...) Respectfully, it sounds as if Mr. Vincent has a contradiction in his thinking and he is also assuming that no discussion means something as he understands the matter. This is how people get into legal challenges with high priced attorneys, but in the final analysis what has been signed within the contract is what will count (as we found out the hard way with the Change in Control issue).
So Respects Jester.

So Vincent's and the grievance award don't have any meaning to you? I see.

Give it up Jester, this argument you will not win. Look up at your 19 stations that currently exist isn't this self evident to your eyes that Hemenway can't get rid of them? It's the best language in the entire industry as no other airline has its own rampers working at stations with only a couple flights. If Hemenway could get rid of them, they would be gone already. OTOH, if this new agreement gets voted in, they will all be gone in 2011.

The Truth about what MR said. That their words will be used against them

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

Strange wording. Instead of saying OUR company this poster chooses to say YOUR company. I wonder why that is. Could it be that this poster doesn't work for our company? I don't know who this poster works for. All I know is that we must stand strong. Oil is too high, your darned right it's too high. Yell at congress to drill for more. We have it here in the States. Oil prices is not this bodies fault, what we need is a living wage! Not this fat cat getting fatter T/A. Oil is this nations problems not mine and my family. I need a contract that makes sense.

Men like Adams and Jefferson are rolling in their graves at the state of this country! They fought for what is right. They fought so that every man would have an equal say, not just the elite!

Remember the past and Predict the future.

They did? Most of those men were part of the gentry and educational elite. They certainly were not Fabians, especially as only those who owned land were allowed to vote (and let's not begin to discuss women's suffrage and slavery).

Hey, it's great to wrap oneself in the flag to make a point, but it looks silly when contrary to the facts.

So Reviews Jester.

 

[Districtforce]

Let me see, we are suppose to eliminate west scope protections, COC, profit sharing, give up seniority rights for part-time recall, have the worst vacation schedule, worst sick policy, worst health care expenses paid [up to $350 for family per month], worst holiday system with no paid holiday pay.....so United can buy us? Puh leeeassseeee! United just gave their own rampers an additional 1% pay raise so they are fine if they have to deal with us.

Go back and tell United, if we don't get a contract with dignity and respect then screw them. Screw it all. I don't trust United and I don't want to be in a situation where we don't get to participate in the United profits until 2016. District Force, is United going to be a 'nice fella' and share its profits with us since you want us to strip ourselves of any last protection and profit sharing so your United Airlines can rape us?

To West Only: The Real MR comments

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]

Tim, nobody is satisfied with the agreement. This is a hard agreement to swallow but I told you back in September that you should have voted in that one since it allowed for the snapbacks and stayed away from the reduction in force language. Negotiating before a merger would appear to give you leverage but as I said last year, your company is a low cost carrier that practices cost neutral bargaining. So what leverage will you gain if your company is a cost neutral bargainer? With the environment changing rapidly and favoring merger activity or bankruptcy, we had little choice but to bring this back to the members in a quick fashion. We are a democratic union so the members will decide if we did the right thing.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, nobody is satisfied with the agreement. This is a hard agreement to swallow but I told you back in September that you should have voted in that one since it allowed for the snapbacks and stayed away from the reduction in force language. Negotiating before a merger would appear to give you leverage but as I said last year, your company is a low cost carrier that practices cost neutral bargaining. So what leverage will you gain if your company is a cost neutral bargainer? With the environment changing rapidly and favoring merger activity or bankruptcy, we had little choice but to bring this back to the members in a quick fashion. We are a democratic union so the members will decide if we did the right thing.

Shame on you. And it's a shame I have to burn my own time fighting for something that you are getting paid for. Shame on you my friend for rolling over.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Rock Bottom]

Oh believe me when I say that the flag would burn me if I wrapped it around me.

Those men still knew that it was not only one's right it was one's duty to question the powers that be! To fight for what you believe in. Even though that fight might be hopeless!

Look at the wording of the T/A! What is to keep this greedy company from cutting flights from the class two cities and making them class one?

The names of those in control are different but the greed remains! What happened to all the PSA stations after the first contract was signed.

Remember, or at least do a google search!!

 

[JoeDirt]

Tim Nelson can provide all the quotes and bylaws rules he wants but if fleet service doesn't vote for this agreement then you can forget about any United Airline merger and start filling out job applications. Is Tim Nelson going to employ you when you all could lose your jobs if you don't make yourself affordable to a potential investor.

Its the company's responsibility to make us affordable to a potential investor not ours. They could have done this by treating us fairly and with a little respect.

Randy Canale's letter is clear that this agreement puts you in position for the next round of bargaining. More importantly, it provides your carrier with a merger friendly agreement. Now isn't the time to debate as your company has to attract investors otherwise it will end up like Aloha. It will be gone!

We have heard this kind of thing before. "Live to fight another day" sound familiar? What about "The concession stand is closed"? The company should have provided us with a employee friendly agreement that would have been merger friendly.

United Airlines is considering Continental but its most likely partner will be US AIRWAYS. Everything is set up for United but United isn't going to sign any merger agreement that contains the Change in Control merger protections or West scopes, so it's only a pipe dream if you think your company will be able to attract a merger partner without first removing the Change in Control and the scope clauses of the west agreement. Good luck with American if you run United away. Talk to our TWA members and I'm sure they would tell you NOT to scare away United only to end up with American.

This paragraph speaks volumes. I keep asking myself why. Why did the company open up T/A talks in the first place? They wanted and needed something from us. Your statement just reinforces something we have been saying all along. There were other paths available for them to pursue but none of them would have gotten them what they wanted and needed.

I also think Randy Canale should get more credit from this group. Nelson points to Continental wages as being higher but Continental never went bankrupt. Nelson points to mechanics getting 30% across the board increases BUT you are not skilled labor. And the 200% bonus' for company executives is normal in this industry. Is it fair? No! But compare apples with apples! The alternative is to vote this contract down and close this airline. Fleet service must listen to its leaders who have fought for you at the negotiations table and understand that if this contract is not passed then it will be very hard for US AIRWAYS to attract potential investors.

Canale has lost all credibility with us. He has lied, used scare tactics and shown a lot more concern for UA than he ever has shown for US Fleet. How about compare us to UA? Were they not in bankruptcy. What do they make an hour? What about their sick policy? How much vacation time? So on and so forth. We could not even get enough respect to get the pittiful 8.5% across the whole pay scale. You have also reverted to scare tactics. People will listen to a leader and Canale is anything but a leader. If we cannot attract a potential investor it will not be our failing but Tempe's.

Mergers are going to happen and you MUST position your company in a way that makes it attractive to investors. We had to give up protections for the west and the east so fleet service will be in position in 2011 for traditional bargaining. Ask yourself and be honest, do you think another airline wants to buy you and then have to negotiate a brand new contract in 2009?
As Randy said, this deal isn't perfect but the one thing it will do is preserve jobs for many of you. Mergers are a necessary evil in this situation and no contract and no union will be able to stop layoffs.

Remember, if your company doesn't merge, NO WAY it will be able to survive the oil crisis. Do your part and support your negotiations team which has worked closely with your company in positioning it for an upcoming merger.

Mergers are going to happen and the company must position themselves in a way that makes US attractive to investors. You haven't given up anything but you are asking us to give up some things that the company wants. We would be willing to give them up but at a cost and this T/A does not come close to that price. You are wrong about this contract is perfect. Perfect for UA, perfect for Tempe and perfect for Canale. The only ones it doesn't come close for is us(US Fleet). The negotiating "team" worked closely with management the problem is too closely and for the wrong reasons. There will be no one to blame but the inept management of this company.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Oh believe me when I say that the flag would burn me if I wrapped it around me.

Those men still knew that it was not only one's right it was one's duty to question the powers that be! To fight for what you believe in. Even though that fight might be hopeless!

Look at the wording of the T/A! What is to keep this greedy company from cutting flights from the class two cities and making them class one?

The names of those in control are different but the greed remains! What happened to all the PSA stations after the first contract was signed.

Remember, or at least do a google search!!

stations that Canale put on the list of his first contract at US AIRWAYS. They said they didn't think these cities would be gone and that the list was just to separate for flight activity sake.
ABE, AVL, AVP, BGM, BTV, CAE, CAK, CHA, CHS, CRW, DAY, DEN, DFW, ELM, ERI, FAY, GRR, GSP, IAH, ILM ITH, LAS, LEX, MDT, MEM, MKE, MSP, MYR, PHX, PNS, PWM, BOR, SAN, SBN, SDF, SEA, SFO, SNA, STL, TOL, TRI, TYS.
All except SFO, DFW, LAS are gone for east purposes.

Then in 2003 canale drew up a new list of stations that can be outsourced: MDT ABE
MSP CLE DTW PNS GSO PWM IAH MKE MCI ALB ATL. Each one was eliminated shortly after the 'drop dead' date.
The new list is the 19 stations plus the 4 other stations not mentioned.

MR words against her

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

They did? Most of those men were part of the gentry and educational elite. They certainly were not Fabians, especially as only those who owned land were allowed to vote (and let's not begin to discuss women's suffrage and slavery).

Hey, it's great to wrap oneself in the flag to make a point, but it looks silly when contrary to the facts.

So Reviews Jester.

Pay raise for the west? Jester, I put together another information piece that should be published in the next few days. First off consider the following:

Health care monthly contributions will go up immediately for the west once this gets in.

If you are full time, your family coverage will go to: $316 month if you chose the best plan. If part-time it is doubled to $632. My understanding is that your full timers pay something like $125 month? This is a cost of almost $200 cash a month out of your new wage if you are full-time. This alone is a $1.65 per hour wage tax on west siders. Notice, you have to make about $300 extra dollars to pay the $200 since you have to include taxes on your new wage.

A list of new expenses is being published and so far the cost is almost $4 hour which will offset all wage gains. Stay tuned until it is complete with 'full objectivity'. For those that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

MR...That their words would be used against them

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

Tim,

Resorting to creating straw man arguments by attributing comments unfairly to others and attempted to discredit my questions and explanations?

In a few short pages of this thread you have:

Suggested that I have disrespecting Mr. Vincent.
Stated that my “Yesâ€￾ vote would be “based on ignoranceâ€￾.
Claimed my thinking was “nonsensical thinkings an bizarre reasoningsâ€￾.
Accused me of “trying to stir misinformationâ€￾.

Now how about discussing some issues instead of practicing the politics of personal destruction?

So Requests Jester.

 

[Tim Nelson]

To All NO voters:
The negotiations committee recommended a yes after removing one individual who refused to support the agreement. Now Canale's team is going around manufacturing 'gloom and doom' and vote yes or else.

Then they tell you No voters that you shouldn't tell others how to vote. Be bold and voice your opinion and encourage others to vote no after they have read the information. It's the right thing to do. They are encouraing a yes vote, you should encourage a No vote and tell people why you're voting no. We are a social being living in a free country that encourages intelligent debate. Don't silence your No vote. Be bold and confident of it. Hey, you don't have to scream it from atop the hill like I do but the masses need leadership so encourage them.

In ORD I have always recommended how to vote. Each time 90% have voted the way I have after I have given them the right information.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]

 

[P. REZ]

Tim,

Our insurance changes 1-1-09 as does pension.