Issues Affecting Canadian Industry?

[HeloTeacher]

I don't know the answer - maybe offer something the other company can't or look for another market that isn't being pressured by low tariffs - is there such a thing?

This is generally referred to as value added service. Specialization in one type of job or being able to provide additional skills or equipment over and above just a helicopter. Companies that do this are quite successful and get better rates.

 

[Randy_G]

Mike, why not hire a couple of students (their voices won't be recognisable) to phone the operators, and get quotes on a job. Then publish the rates that were quoted. It might be an interesting comparison, then ask the operators why there is such disparity (assuming there is one), or why their quoted rate was so low. Then compare them to what the same a/c's tariff was, say 20 years ago. I'm sure there are some on here who can remember what their tariffs were that long ago.

Cheers

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Amodao, correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the majority of helicopter companies (lets say 75%) work seasonally 3 to 6 month's of the year. Therefore only reqiuring applicable staff for that period of time no? :huh:

 

[amodao]

The original point I was trying to get accross was that there are too many helicopters in Canada. If we cut back on the amount of aircraft competing for a limited amount of hours the amount of hours and the rates at which they fly increases. You get better utilization and the fixed costs per flight hour decrease. If there are less helicopters you require less crews and maybe..... it will be possible to have people employed all year around. Thats all I was trying to add.

Blackmac, according to the Transport Canada web site (2002 figures), there are 18,123 fixed wing and 1831 helicopters registered in Canada. Of those 1831 helicopters there are 1376 commercially registered. It also states that there were 23,867 commercially registered pilots and 12,397 licensed AME's. It appears to be about a 10 to 1 ratio between fixed and flingwing aircraft. Let us supposed these ratios carry over into the pilot and engineer ranks. It could be said that there are approximately 2400 comercial helicopter pilots and 1200 helicopter AME's. That means there are 1.7 commercial helicopter pilots and .7 licensed AME's for each commercially registered helicopter in Canada. I personally don't know of a single helicopter operator that carries these levels of staff.

Almost everyone complains about treatment and pay at the hands of the operators, but with all that available talent out there competing for the same work someone will always do the job for less. It will be impossible to change the current state of our indusrty as a whole unless the available supply of heli crews decrease.

We are our own worst problem. Plain and simple. :huh:

 

[cyclic monkey]

Amodao, yeah right, nice idea.

Okay, any operators that want to get rid of excessive equipment in Canada, please put up your hands.....................

Oh dear, no takers.

Okay, any pilots that want to quit their jobs just to save your (former) industry for the rest of us, please put up your hands..................come on guys...................anyone?, anyone at all?.
Please remember "We are our own worst problem. Plain and simple. "
Come on guys, who wants to 'take one for the team' ??

Oh dear, no takers.

Pardon my sarcasism Amodao, but if it was that easy, all the operators would have raised their tariffs long ago, and we wouldn't be discussing this now.

P.S. I know of a company that has that ratio of pilots and AMEs on staff. The company also has immaculate machinery, an excellent safety record, and first-class wages and benefits. It can be done.

 

[CTD]

The figures on the TC site are completely meaningless - they indicate only the number of licences issued, and have no relation to how many may be active in Canada.

The numbers include those who work overseas, are out of the business selling real estate, TC inspectors, low-timers with no job, active f/w pilots who have both, etc. etc. etc.

I wouldn't out much faith in them.

 

[cyclic monkey]

Hi CTD, thanks for your confirmation of something I often suspected....."The figures on the TC site are completely meaningless".

It looks like you've got lots of work to do there before you move on to be Prime Minister, huh??

 

[amodao]

Cyclic monkey,
I hope you work for this company, its sound great. Maybe everyone can get a job their and the interest in a pilot and engineer association will be irrelevant. We will all be satisfied, paid well, get our teeth cleaned, and never have to worry about flying ugly helicopters.

CTD,
Really.......! Its kind of like how you have to guess ratio's and make assumptions.
I think you have stumbled across something really big, we will have to call this data something like........STATISTICS! The extremely accurate data that everyone has access too we can call..............wait for it............FICTIONISTICS!

Pardon my veiled sneer or should I call it sarcasm.

The two of you seem like intelligent folk.
Lets hear your solutions on how these raised tarriffs will fix all of the problems. And I hope there is an operator out there watching your response, one that will implement your corrective solutions and bring us out of the dark ages.

Oh, Cyclic Monkey, by the way did I actually say that people should give up their jobs for the collective good. Or could it so happen that the impending shortage of pilots and engineers, as pointed out in a previous response (5 to 10 years), act as the balance between crews, helicopters and available work.

But whatever does eventually turn this industry around, it seems that sarcasm is the only dish served on this site. Just look at the results! 😛

Or am I completely out to lunch again?

 

[CTD]

My reply was not intended to elicit sarcasm, but to add a dose of reality to the equation.

I wouldn't expect the TC site to offer anything different - it reflects the number of valid CADs out there. TC cannot be expected to go around figuring out who is actually using their licence.

As for my solutions - I have zero involvement in the commercial industry, and do not profess to have the answers to its problems.

 

[GoldMember]

HOLY CRAP!!!

I've never heard so much crybaby sniveling all at once from so many peo..... oh, hang on a second, yes I have, last year at about this same time. Must be the slow season. Too much time on our hands?

I had a great year, I'm well treated by management at a well run company that has nice hardware, and I'm HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY to be a helicopter pilot, if I wasn't I'd quit!

 

[cyclic monkey]

Amodao,
First you said..."It will be impossible to change the current state of our industry as a whole unless the available supply of heli crews decrease. We are our own worst problem. Plain and simple"

Then in reply to my post you asked......"by the way did I actually say that people should give up their jobs for the collective good. "

Well, to me it looks like that is what you said.
Or were you suggesting that the owners just fire these guys, after all, the owners just sold their excess machinery because you suggested....."The original point I was trying to get across was that there are too many helicopters in Canada. If we cut back on the amount of aircraft competing for a limited amount of hours.......... "

Who is the "we" you refer to, how many helicopters should be disposed of, and which companies will lose some of their fleet ????

No, you are not out to lunch. Some of us are sarcastic in our replies. Please keep posting your ideas, but remember that not everyone will agree with you, and that you may have to explain some of your thoughts.

I don't know the answer to all these problems, but it will give Vertical Mag something to write about. Yes, I do work for the company mentioned, and everything you suspected about it is true, and they are always interested in resumes from experienced people that may appreciate what is being offered.

 

[amodao]

Cyclic Monkey and CTD,
I appreciate the feedback and will try to explain my point of view in a clearer way.
Merry Christmas 😉