Maintenance By The Hour - On New Engine Work

[scorpian]

Buck, did you go and picket Zebco's biggest customer? You are a perfect example of a fanatic.

Why don't you start coming up with concrete examples to fix the situation, i.e. get passengers to pay top scale wages to glue contact paper on toilet doors, and for that matter replace light bulbs in the cabin. When the pax stop frequenting SWA and JB then maybe all wages can be driven above what the market is willing to pay.

AA only signs your paycheck, the customer puts the funds into the account.

Now answer me my standard question...do you insist that the guy putting new tires on your car be a fully certified and trained car mechanic? Or do you settle for some kid who can mount wheels, because that is all his boss is going to train him to do, and pay him accordingly?

In reference to your quote from para. 1. It means that the AA shareholders are not going to stand by and let their equity go down the drain because you think you deserve more than the market or your ego thinks you should be getting. If you would accept the fact that not all jobs can generate the same value added, or in simple language are worth the top amt scale, then just maybe you will get your fair share. But then you would have nothing to scream about.

Regardless of all your blather, you cannot and will not justify your pay to OSMs. Which is why Crandall was CEO, he stood on the stage and did not apologize for his pay. You are unwilling to stick your neck out and take a risk in management, better to work under a guaranteed contract, right?

So who is the coward and the skared individual?

The coward is the man who wont stand up for his rights and demand democracy and accountability. A scared man with no pride in himself will except whatever the company hands him. In our case we have twu waiters that deliver leftovers from the management buffet.

A real bargaining agent would have made sure the shared sacrifice was equally shared or the deal would be off. What management gave up was a joke.

Nice choice using Crandell for an example, why not carty and the boys, nuff said.

I'm not sure, your either management or willing to jump on their side when it comes to defending the twu but no shareholder wants to pay a dime more for labor than he has too. This is why we have unions bro. Were all smart enough to know that we cant price ourselves out of the market but we dont need to give up the farm either.

By your scenario on the tires I take it your advocating different pay scales based on what job function a mechanic performs. I guess we could evaluate every job we do and pay accordingly but why stop there lets throw in performance incentives BROTHER!!!

One good concrete example to start fixing the situation would be for management to actually trim the fat and the ones that were left give up the same pay and benefits that we did.

 

[j7915]

J7915: Just answer the question.


The kid changing the tire is most likely not a kid, but a TWU member of the OSM classification at his second job.

So maybe he should go to work for Nordam and AA to contract all the OSM work out?

At least the parking would get better.

 

[TWU informer]

J7915: Just answer the question.


The kid changing the tire is most likely not a kid, but a TWU member of the OSM classification at his second job.

So maybe he should go to work for Nordam and AA to contract all the OSM work out?

At least the parking would get better.

Yeah, and the poor OSM would not have to pay two hours pay per month to the most docile union on the planet.

Let's take a vote?

 

[Bob Owens]

So maybe he should go to work for Nordam and AA to contract all the OSM work out?

At least the parking would get better. [/quote]
There you have it. The TWU not only thinks you deserve less but they want to contract out your jobs for better parking.

 

[Buck]

J7915: Just answer the question.


The kid changing the tire is most likely not a kid, but a TWU member of the OSM classification at his second job.

So maybe he should go to work for Nordam and AA to contract all the OSM work out?

At least the parking would get better.

It is a good thing that you do not identify yourself. The use of an alias is most likely the only thing protecting you from those OSM's that are loyal to the TWU.

If you are a union man as you portray, then why do you advocate lower wages and benefits for your brothers and sisters?

 

[TWU informer]

ENGINE WORK ABOUT TO GO OVERSEAS JUST LIKE ZEBCO DID!


GET RID OF THE TWU BEFORE YOUR JOB IS NEXT!

 

[j7915]

J7915: Just answer the question.


The kid changing the tire is most likely not a kid, but a TWU member of the OSM classification at his second job.

So maybe he should go to work for Nordam and AA to contract all the OSM work out?

At least the parking would get better.

It is a good thing that you do not identify yourself. The use of an alias is most likely the only thing protecting you from those OSM's that are loyal to the TWU.

If you are a union man as you portray, then why do you advocate lower wages and benefits for your brothers and sisters?

Buck you should take the blinders off. If you can't recognize sarcasm when you read it, you won't recognize the company lawyers' clever wordings when you are asked to vote on them.

Besides you seem to have a very selective memory, I have NEVER advocated eliminating jobs, commensurate pay for the work , but never jobs.

 

[Buck]

I recognize sarcasm, but I would say that those that you are using as the subject of this sarcasm are not amused. My blinders are off and have been since at least 1989. That was when I knew that the TWU was not the union for the mechanic craft and class. I will not need to recognize the company lawyers "clever" wording, that has caused the TWU to blindly follow the company's course since 1983. The representitive of my craft class will have lawyers to fight your company lawyers, not skilled mechanics or unskilled Fleet Service members of an Industrial Union that has dues as their only concern.

As for my selective memory, if you never advocated eliminating jobs? then I am not the one you need to convince. Push a little more sarcasm toward these members that are reading your material, but please "stand up" when you do so. Most comedians do.

And who are you to use the term " commensurate pay for the work "?

Do you work for the company? Have you been involved in developing the QAM towards the companies position?

 

[TeamTWU]

Point well made, Now answer me my standard question...do you insist that the guy putting new tires on your car be a fully certified and trained car mechanic? Or do you settle for some kid who can mount wheels, because that is all his boss is going to train him to do, and pay him accordingly?


We are all guilty and self serving. And really Superside, just because "Sir,
That "kid who can mount wheel" 1. Did not train to receive an FAA Certificate to mount the mentioned wheel. 2. Did not borrow or pay back 10's of thousands of Dollars in loans. 3. Did not take the required Tests to Qualify for the above mentioned Certificate. 4. Did not spend 1or 2 years in School learning the skills required. And the most IMPORTANT... 5. DOES NOT HAVE IN HIS, UN-SKILLED, UN-CERTIFIED, HANDS... THE LIVES OF THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO FLY! does this mean the man that chose his profession, other than your own , is not due his just rewards? But do not show concern, most amfa reps feel the way you do, the "for me first" way of living. And really, SECURE YOUR FUTURE BOYS, SIGN A CARD! , will you Guarantee my family the signing of your card will ensure no furlough, adequate benefits and pay, no work rule problems, the fall of unemployment in the US of A?

I do not believe you can show me anywhere where I would be better off with amfa. You speak of outsourcing in a disguising way.

Outsourcing Percentages

Outsourcing is figured in four different ways which brings out confusion to the membership

1. Outsourcing as a percentage of labor cost.

This is the method used in NWA contract with an alleged cap of 38%. In 2002 the outsourcing at NWA was 44%. If you allow outsourcing to be tied to your labor cost, each time you receive a pay increase the company is allowed to farm out more of your work.

2. Outsourcing as a percentage of the cost of material.

3. Outsourcing as a percentage of the cost to have the work accomplished by an outside vendor.

4. Outsourcing as a percentage of the maintenance burden; normally including items such as cost of tooling and upkeep of the facilities.

So you see, the membership is wise to your twistings of facts.

Want amfa? Ask for a vote!

 

[scorpian]

Point well made, Now answer me my standard question...do you insist that the guy putting new tires on your car be a fully certified and trained car mechanic? Or do you settle for some kid who can mount wheels, because that is all his boss is going to train him to do, and pay him accordingly?


We are all guilty and self serving. And really Superside, just because "Sir,
That "kid who can mount wheel" 1. Did not train to receive an FAA Certificate to mount the mentioned wheel. 2. Did not borrow or pay back 10's of thousands of Dollars in loans. 3. Did not take the required Tests to Qualify for the above mentioned Certificate. 4. Did not spend 1or 2 years in School learning the skills required. And the most IMPORTANT... 5. DOES NOT HAVE IN HIS, UN-SKILLED, UN-CERTIFIED, HANDS... THE LIVES OF THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO FLY! does this mean the man that chose his profession, other than your own , is not due his just rewards? But do not show concern, most amfa reps feel the way you do, the "for me first" way of living. And really, SECURE YOUR FUTURE BOYS, SIGN A CARD! , will you Guarantee my family the signing of your card will ensure no furlough, adequate benefits and pay, no work rule problems, the fall of unemployment in the US of A?

I do not believe you can show me anywhere where I would be better off with amfa. You speak of outsourcing in a disguising way.

Outsourcing Percentages

Outsourcing is figured in four different ways which brings out confusion to the membership

1. Outsourcing as a percentage of labor cost.

This is the method used in NWA contract with an alleged cap of 38%. In 2002 the outsourcing at NWA was 44%. If you allow outsourcing to be tied to your labor cost, each time you receive a pay increase the company is allowed to farm out more of your work.

2. Outsourcing as a percentage of the cost of material.

3. Outsourcing as a percentage of the cost to have the work accomplished by an outside vendor.

4. Outsourcing as a percentage of the maintenance burden; normally including items such as cost of tooling and upkeep of the facilities.

So you see, the membership is wise to your twistings of facts.

Want amfa? Ask for a vote!

Team twu
your questions easy to answer, I dont insist the guy putting tires on my car know how to rebuild the engine but I do expect the guy putting tires on an aircraft I'm flying in to be a little more versed than just tire replacement.

As far as outsourcing the AMFA/NW agreement doesnt allege anything its 38% and is figured using total labor dollars meaning the hourly rate the outside vendor charges NW not the hourly rate the vendor pays their help. All this is in the scope section of their agreement.

Since you brought up outsourcing what is our limit per our scope clause and how do we figure are outsourcing percentage? I've been with AA for 16 years and anyone you ask doesnt have a clue as to how we figure it. Its not in our contract anywhere. How about we put your answers in the twu informer along with legal documentation to back up your answers.

 

[Superside]

Point well made, Now answer me my standard question...do you insist that the guy putting new tires on your car be a fully certified and trained car mechanic? Or do you settle for some kid who can mount wheels, because that is all his boss is going to train him to do, and pay him accordingly?


We are all guilty and self serving. And really Superside, just because "Sir,
That "kid who can mount wheel" 1. Did not train to receive an FAA Certificate to mount the mentioned wheel. 2. Did not borrow or pay back 10's of thousands of Dollars in loans. 3. Did not take the required Tests to Qualify for the above mentioned Certificate. 4. Did not spend 1or 2 years in School learning the skills required. And the most IMPORTANT... 5. DOES NOT HAVE IN HIS, UN-SKILLED, UN-CERTIFIED, HANDS... THE LIVES OF THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO FLY! does this mean the man that chose his profession, other than your own , is not due his just rewards? But do not show concern, most amfa reps feel the way you do, the "for me first" way of living. And really, SECURE YOUR FUTURE BOYS, SIGN A CARD! , will you Guarantee my family the signing of your card will ensure no furlough, adequate benefits and pay, no work rule problems, the fall of unemployment in the US of A?

I do not believe you can show me anywhere where I would be better off with amfa. You speak of outsourcing in a disguising way.

Outsourcing Percentages

Outsourcing is figured in four different ways which brings out confusion to the membership

1. Outsourcing as a percentage of labor cost.

This is the method used in NWA contract with an alleged cap of 38%. In 2002 the outsourcing at NWA was 44%. If you allow outsourcing to be tied to your labor cost, each time you receive a pay increase the company is allowed to farm out more of your work.

2. Outsourcing as a percentage of the cost of material.

3. Outsourcing as a percentage of the cost to have the work accomplished by an outside vendor.

4. Outsourcing as a percentage of the maintenance burden; normally including items such as cost of tooling and upkeep of the facilities.

So you see, the membership is wise to your twistings of facts.

Want amfa? Ask for a vote!

"Secure your future boys, sign a card"
It means just that, "Secure". Sucure in the fact that WE the membership will have control over our own future. The TWU controls us not the other way around. Surely you can see, that to control your own future is in the best intrest of your family and co-workers.

 

[Father Guido Sarducci]

AGENCY FEE IS THE WAY TO BE!

 

[scorpian]

Team twu claims AMFA/NW outsourcing formula is confusing.

They use inhouse labor cost verses labor cost from the outside vendor.

You claim every time the NW mechanics get a raise NW can outsource more work.
This is true but tell the whole story it doesnt mean dollar for dollar if NW labor rate is $65 an hour and they get a $2 an hour raise the percent raise overall is just 3% so if the vendor doesnt raise his cost they can outsource an extra 38% of 3% which is a whopping 1.1%.


Our outsourcing percentage is really vague it says (total aircraft maintenance expense) which could encompass any expense AA wanted wanted to throw into the mix. A bean counter with any imagination at all could manipulate the ratio of outsourcing to the companies favor just by dragging expenses into the maintenance budget from somewhere else.
At AA with all the corporate wellfare they provide we have a pretty heavy burden thats figured in with our outsourcing. Everytime management gets a raise our outsourcing percentage goes up. Everytime they add management staff our outsourcing percentage goes up or buy new furniture, have a company paid power lunch etc. etc. etc.

So you tell me which would you rather have?

 

[Buck]

For the TWU the outsourcing formula for AMFA/NW is confusing. AMFA uses lawyers.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Outsourcing Percentages

Outsourcing is figured in four different ways which brings out confusion to the membership
[COLOR=blue]


Any time you can't figure out the contract while polluted from a fifth of vodka, it's confusing. That is why our contract is written in such a way to avoid confusion, we just give the company everything. No confusion here you see, I can stay drunk and pretend to file grievences like TEAM TWU.