Management Bonus!

[700UW]

Gee Bob, thought you weren't going to talk bad about the IAM again.

The difference is the IAM Membership at the constitutional convention votes to set the International President, Secretary-Treasurer and General Vice President's salaries.

Don't see the employees or the shareholders voting on giving your New Pal Al's a $50,000 a year raise.

 

[barbeetantrums]

If early on in our lives we had decided to become acountants and pursued an MBA from Vanderbilt we would probably all be making as much as Doug and the rest. We instead decided to be pilots, mechanics, rampers, flight attendants, res agents, CSRs, etc. Executives make more money than any of the other occupations. Doug and his goons are leading the fifth largest airline in the US. They will not come down to a ramper's wage. It is the way this world works. Make money for the investor and you will reap large rewards. If you have to stick it to the worker, then so be it. That is business and nothing personal.

This is a silly topic.

 

[crazy4newus]

I am typically one to come to the defense of the execs, having lived through much (though not all) at HP and appreciating what we now have. However, just for kicks and giggles... Scott Kirby's $125,000 raise is equal to roughly $10,000 per month which is just a teeny bit less than what our ramp, res and customer service reps make per year!!! ouch.

Q - for those of us who are CWA-ignorant...what are snap backs (one correct, kind, honest, non-bashing answer will suffice)

 

[mlt]

Q - for those of us who are CWA-ignorant...what are snap backs (one correct, kind, honest, non-bashing answer will suffice)

In the concessionary agreements the labor groups had a provision that if a 'change in control' occured, certain provisions of the original agreement 'snapped back'.

 

[careerfurloughee]

Outrageous to whom?

It should come as no surprise that CEO's don't want their pay tied to performance anymore than the average unionized worker does.

I was with you until you made this leap in logic. Are you talking about the average union worker having his pay tied to his performance or the companies? One he has control over the other he has no control over. The CEO on the other hand has control of both.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Scott Kirby's $125,000 raise is equal to roughly $10,000 per month which is just a teeny bit less than what our ramp, res and customer service reps make per year!!! ouch.

In the case of ramp, ramp makes exactly what it negotiated for. They have no one to blame but the negotiators from the 2000 contract. One of those would be today's TWU 580 president.

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

If early on in our lives we had decided to become acountants and pursued an MBA from Vanderbilt we would probably all be making as much as Doug and the rest.

i have a masters from vanderbilt (2004) and i make 41k.

 

[diogenes]

Whether an exec wants his compensation tied to performance is irrelevant in this brave new world!

Market forces are what they preach, and are the justification for pension cuts, health care increases and wage cuts for employees. Fair enough. That rationale should be applied to the whole of the business, execs and employees alike, yes?

Using executive logic, U execs cannot possibly justify higher base wages than JB and WN, as the market has, to this point, ruled against U's business plan vis a vis JB and WN.

If the dichotomy between speech and actions at new U continues, what has effectively changed?

 

[roadtrip]

The banks loan us 2.5 billion after all the sacrifices from the workers in Pay and benefits and as fast as you can say Gordon Gecko all the management get hefty raises. There is no justification for raises in the amounts given to Senior management . Give them a performace raise when the airline starts making money thats what should be done but heck that makes way to much sense. I hope the hard working employees both east and west thinks long a hard about that over the next 5 plus years operating under dead end contracts.

 

[matt]

I think it is a bunch of bulls*** that the boys upstairs get anything. What a huge slap in the face to the employees. techs going on 25 months with no contract and other employee groups with no raises. I think it is the time to send a wakeup call to the fat cats uostairs. Doug is full of himself and mean while we are still eating hamburger helper. Let's spread the pie to everyone on both sides of the spectrum. Remember the HOLIDAYS ARE COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sharkstooth]

Gee Bob, thought you weren't going to talk bad about the IAM again.

"I did NOT speak ill of Mr Roach. I used his earnings as a point of reference as his Salary and that of MR Neeleman are nearly identical. If you think it's bad then perhaps it's your guilt? Certainly not mine, but you have to admit the Mr Neeleman has created thousands of jobs as opposed to presiding over an organization that has had perpetual loses of members both in numbers and earning capacity."

No, Bob . That is not what you were comparing. You were specifically comparing front loading vs back loading. Quit prevaricating, please.

Also, a question for you. You quoted a "salary" for Mr. Roach, comparing it to Neeleman, who also makes stock options, among other compensation bits. Could you please explain to me how an executive at a union is eligible for "stock options" when no union, to my knowledge, has stock?

The difference is the IAM Membership at the constitutional convention votes to set the International President, Secretary-Treasurer and General Vice President's salaries.

Don't see the employees or the shareholders voting on giving your New Pal Al's a $50,000 a year raise.

"Actually the Board of Directors voted the pay raises. The BOD members are ELECTED by the shareholders and as such are supposed to represent the interests of those shareholders So I'm not sure why you would feel it an arbitrary decision"

Actually, Bob The BOD is first appointed by the ruling body, generally, a committee run by the CEO. Rarely is there an open election, with anyone who wants, running for the position. "Board elections", like the fake "elections in Iraq" are hardly complete without a slate of candidates, an opportunity to hear each candidate and an opportunity to vote on each. What you think is an election is really not, do you really think you are voting for each and every boardmember? Re-read the instructions. You will be surprised.

In a union, each candidate must apply before the membership, must be heard and is considered in each election.

The comparison is pathetically ignorant. Your socialistic schooling is showing its slip.

 

[barbeetantrums]

i have a masters from vanderbilt (2004) and i make 41k.

Good for you!

 

[High Iron]

If early on in our lives we had decided to become acountants and pursued an MBA from Vanderbilt we would probably all be making as much as Doug and the rest. We instead decided to be pilots, mechanics, rampers, flight attendants, res agents, CSRs, etc. Executives make more money than any of the other occupations. Doug and his goons are leading the fifth largest airline in the US. They will not come down to a ramper's wage. It is the way this world works. Make money for the investor and you will reap large rewards. If you have to stick it to the worker, then so be it. That is business and nothing personal.

This is a silly topic.

Silly? No sillier than a pathetic non-sequitur. You're attempting to illustrate somewhat shady linkage here. The basic tone of your post, the "thesis statement", is that the "ends justify the means", at least in theory...well, ALL in theory. You see, there is no "ends" ( profits ) and therefore no linkage to increased compensation...unless they know something Mr & Mrs Rankin Phyle doesn't...in which case the Phyle family could logically seek to improve their lot through negotiations. Perhaps the company isn't ( really ) bleeding cash at such an alarming rate afterall. "Leading by example"? I think not.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Silly? No sillier than a pathetic non-sequitur. You're attempting to illustrate somewhat shady linkage here. The basic tone of your post, the "thesis statement", is that the "ends justify the means", at least in theory...well, ALL in theory. You see, there is no "ends" ( profits ) and therefore no linkage to increased compensation...unless they know something Mr & Mrs Rankin Phyle doesn't...in which case the Phyle family could logically seek to improve their lot through negotiations. Perhaps the company isn't ( really ) bleeding cash at such an alarming rate afterall. "Leading by example"? I think not.

All I'm trying to say is that this is capitalism. Just the way it is. Nature of the beast. Moaning on an Internet board about how much money these people make will accomplish squat. Seriously, now. What are you going to do about their pay? Nothing. You'll vent your frustrations within small groups of co-workers and go about your business. What did you expect?

 

[diogenes]

You could be right, barbee.

OTOH, blogs brought down Dan Rather. They kept the heat on Judy Miller and the New York Times.

And where was the first report of Kerry's running mate, Edwards?

Right here on usaviation.com - a blogger saw the paint job on the campaign jet and reported here, beating ther mainstream media to the scoop.

I personally think internet communications are a great tool of democracy - every man, woman and child has a printing press now.

Messy? You bet. Essential? I think so.