This poll seems fun in light of what has happened in the last couple weeks with the Teamsters and several other unions pulling away from the AFL-CIO. I suspect the no raid clause is no longer valid for the Teamsters. While pushing for AMFA I would often run across workers who would not fill out an AMFA card but who said they would fill out a Teamsters card. Also I ran across many supply people and fleet service people who were disappointed with the TWU and then fact that they could not fill out AMFA cards. Just kind of curious what people opinions are when you throw in a third alternative.
Mechanics Election
- Thread starter proAMFA
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Wretched Wrench
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- Apr 21, 2003
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Let's wait and see how AMFA does at NW. They have lost some credibility with their capitulation at UAL.
The Teamsters have done well for the drivers at UPS and carried the AMTs along, but not so well at CAL.
I wonder what the SWA mechs think now that they have thrown out the Teamsters for AMFA. Their opinions would certainly be relavent.
The Teamsters have done well for the drivers at UPS and carried the AMTs along, but not so well at CAL.
I wonder what the SWA mechs think now that they have thrown out the Teamsters for AMFA. Their opinions would certainly be relavent.
MCI transplant
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- Jun 4, 2003
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<_< Good point!!!!Wretched Wrench said:
local 12 proud
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- Mar 5, 2004
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at this point I would vote for anybody except the worthless compAAny lap dog TWU. heck we could probably find better representation with the food servers, or brick layers unions!
Wretched Wrench said:
I have spoken to many SWA AMT's and they all say pretty much the same about being glad they dumped the Teamsters. Now they aren't 100% happy with AMFA especially after the UAL contract, but as they say, at least these decisions are left in the hands of the membership and done without the "Little" style threats of liquidation. The SWA guys did mention that their locals have alot more money then when the Teamsters were there. Reasons being, the Teamster, like the twu have expensive habits and tastes and like to use up the local funds.
Continued....I just hung up the phone with a SWA AMT who had been layed off at USAIR and AA and asked him to rate the unions. He puts the AMFA on top, going alone possibly next(there is talk of it based on the NWA situation), Teamsters a distant 3rd and virtual tie with the IAM, non-union 4th(worked as a contractor between layoffs), and the twu a distant 5th.
I would think that a systemwide survey would show the same results as already posted.
AMFA [ 5 ] [50.00%]
TWU [ 1 ] [10.00%] (Must be paid by them)
Teamsters [ 4 ] [40.00%]
Total Votes: 10
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #6
The temptation to vote for almost anybody that would kick the TWU's butt out of town is definately there. I have doubts that the Teamsters would be such putty in the hands of the company. I guess if your willing to have a union dictate to you than you'd like an industrial type union, but if you are willing to chart your own course using a more democratic approach than AMFA is the way to go. AMFA's greatest weakness is its greatest strength. The membership decides which way to advance. Though the industrial unions claim the same we all know that they "sell" a contract to the membership. At the IAM at US Airways the mechanics "got it wrong" and had to vote again. The TWU always recommends to the membership which way to vote and also will go as far as fabricating lies in order to get the membership to vote the way they are "supposed to". They scared the crap out of the membership in 2003 with lies about what would happen if the membership voted no. I would be ashamed to claim to have anything to do with the TWU after that. Still I must admit the fact that it is awful hard to displace the well entrenched company union since they have the govt., the co. and stooges who sell themselves out for a hat or a t-shirt supporting them-the lure of the Teamsters having the strength to displace the TWU is definately there.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
A big problem could be a 3 way vote.
With AA being solidly entrenched in DF+"DUBYA", and OKIE-homa, the SMART AMT's in TX, and OK, would wind up splitting the IBT/AMFA vote, SADLY putting the "weak sister" in as the winner.
I hope to HELL i'm wrong, but Strike or no strike, AMFA is HISTORY at BIG RED.
The only way they stay(for now) is to totally 'cave-in" to managements demands.
I'd be shocked if NW has'nt already crunched the $$ numbers, to see what it will cost them to have their remaining AMT's vote in the IBT . The IBT, because unless AMFA caves in, their history, there's NO WAY NW AMT's bring back the IAM, and theirs DEFINITELY "N-"F"-W" that they'd bring in the twu.
This thing with Hoffa "bailing" on the Afl-Cio, could have some very interesting consequences !!
NH/BB's
With AA being solidly entrenched in DF+"DUBYA", and OKIE-homa, the SMART AMT's in TX, and OK, would wind up splitting the IBT/AMFA vote, SADLY putting the "weak sister" in as the winner.
I hope to HELL i'm wrong, but Strike or no strike, AMFA is HISTORY at BIG RED.
The only way they stay(for now) is to totally 'cave-in" to managements demands.
I'd be shocked if NW has'nt already crunched the $$ numbers, to see what it will cost them to have their remaining AMT's vote in the IBT . The IBT, because unless AMFA caves in, their history, there's NO WAY NW AMT's bring back the IAM, and theirs DEFINITELY "N-"F"-W" that they'd bring in the twu.
This thing with Hoffa "bailing" on the Afl-Cio, could have some very interesting consequences !!
NH/BB's
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
Another thing,
If ,(big word, I know), IF the IBT ever got in representing the AMT's at AA + NW, you'd could see a BIG push to go after FSC's at AA + NW. !!
NH/BB's
If ,(big word, I know), IF the IBT ever got in representing the AMT's at AA + NW, you'd could see a BIG push to go after FSC's at AA + NW. !!
NH/BB's
Wretched Wrench
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- Apr 21, 2003
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NewHampshire Black Bears said:
Oh, Oh................I can see AA already scuttling to be sure that it is indeed a three way vote so that the TWU wins once again.
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
I think the way to go is to all file. Conduct the card drive for all classifications at the same time. If anything, due to Tulsa and MCI, Fleet would be the first to leave.
You have to remember that Fleet has no reason to be happy with the TWU.
They lost jobs, lost work rules and even though they never saw the increases that mechanics saw in 2001 they took deep pay cuts. In fact their pay is actually "LOWER" now in absolute dollars than it was before the 2001 contract!
Dallas may have a lot of FSCs but so does NY, CA and MIA. If anything the head count balance is higher towards the high cost areas. All the part timers in the high cost areas shift the numbers even more in their favor.There is no "800lb Gorilla" in the Title III group. I've spoken to several FSCs at JFK, even some who were deeply involved with the TWU, every one said they would go to the Teamsters in a heartbeat.
You're a FSC from the Northeast, how do you think your former coworkers would react to a Teamsters card drive Bear?
Wretched Wrench said:
Not if you are looking at the results of this poll.
The TWU would get very few, if any, votes from mechanics at the line stations. Its doubtful they would get very many even in Tulsa. I also think that by now MCI would vote for the Teamsters before they would vote for the TWU.
As Bobby Gless, TWU International Rep admitted under oath in July of 2004, theTWU was against having an election because "the TWU would lose".
So a three way race would really be a run off between the AMFA and the Teamsters with the TWU running a very, very distant third.
Think of it, what does the TWU have to offer? They have the worst track record as far as wages and benifits of any union. The average TWU wage is not only lower than the average union wage its lower than the average non-union wage!
The TWU is a small union, its closer in size to AMFA than the Teamsters. So with the TWU you get all the disadvantages of a big union as far as a lack of autonomy plus the disadvantages of a small union with a lack of resources.
(The Teamsters has 1.4 million members. Its 14 times the size of the TWU, whereas the TWU is only around three times the size of AMFA, but, the TWU is all spread out between many different industries. Being spread out is tantamount to being divided, a structure that keeps International Officers in power but leaves the members weak.)
Now for Fleet it would only be a two way race. TWU or Teamsters. A slam dunk-the TWU would be gone.
Fleet never had any options so they were more of the opinion of "change from within is preferrable". In reality "change from within' was the only option. Prior to the seperate locals being formed several AA Locals, especially ORD and NYC started pushing for more control. The International then split up those Locals. I believe the International removed the President from ORD, a resulting lawsuit was settled before trial, in other words the President was paid off, the TWU International did nothing when the E-Board of local 501 was fired (most likely because they probably had a hand in it) in the middle of the election by the company (their lawsuit continues) and the Presidents from SFO and DFW were brought into the International where they now recieve double what they used to get paid and will recieve a much better pension.
Is change from within possible? Well anything is possible, just not likely. The International has the power to eliminate or buy off any opposition from within. Its rumored that the former President from ORD, Joy Calloway recieved the full amount they had cited in the lawsuit, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The former E-board from 501 is still going forward with their lawsuit. The President from SFO and DFW are now International reps earning six figure salaries from the International. Chuck Schalk and myself, who had alligned with Local 501, 100 and 234 in pushing for change within the TWU, were also removed from office and are going forward with our lawsuit. The TWU requested a restraining order to prevent me from posting what TWU officers testified to under oath. They were denied. In the meantime the TWU has not changed a bit. Not only that but according to a letter from Jim Little the TWU does not need any structural changes, they only need to "communicate, communicate, communicate
"Communicate" with the TWU by sending them packing!!!
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
All this talk about the Teamsters and others leaving the afl-cio. Wasn't belonging to the afl-cio one of the virtues of staying with the twu? Didn't cio, and other alias posting cowards raise this banner over AMFA? Didn't burchette sing the praises of the afl-cio's political might as being Heaven sent during the Horizon debate he stared in?
Point being why woulf these unions leave the safety blanket the afl-cio offers? The twu has been VERY mum about this developement. I applaud these unions for leaving a defunct organization which is lead by a ageing, personal issue blinded man. The Teamsters tried changing from within but were pretty much told that wouldn't happen. Hum, now where have we heard that before?
Now the twu will probably claim that the Teamsters are a raiding union. We can't have 'RAIDING" now can we! That would only force unions to be held accountable to their membership.
Point being why woulf these unions leave the safety blanket the afl-cio offers? The twu has been VERY mum about this developement. I applaud these unions for leaving a defunct organization which is lead by a ageing, personal issue blinded man. The Teamsters tried changing from within but were pretty much told that wouldn't happen. Hum, now where have we heard that before?
Now the twu will probably claim that the Teamsters are a raiding union. We can't have 'RAIDING" now can we! That would only force unions to be held accountable to their membership.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
Bob Owens said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob,
(As you well know) the TW Useless would be "booted" by the IBT, in a "New York Minute" !!!!!!
NH/BB's
