More breathing room in PHL Terminal A-East?

[PHL]

Unverified info from a "I know a guy at DL" thread on FT:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-skymi...ml#post11242230

Anyone here know if this is likely? I figure those 3 gates DL uses in A East will be useful for US to support the intl. arrivals without having to use the people movers.

 

[etops1]

Makes sense to me. There is no room at A east to acomadate a combined DL/NW operation.

 

[nycbusdriver]

They should put Delta over with NWA, and move SWA to that hardstand and let them use people movers for a few months while they extend A-West. If people movers are no big deal, SWA should have no problem with them.

 

[Atlantic]

This was a done deal at the last of last year. DL and NW can not fit in A East. The airport is moving DL back to someware east of Term. B. We should have those gates for the spring oceanic ramp up.

 

[FutureUScapt]

This is encouraging to see they will be fixing the situation, albeit one that should have never been tampered with in the first place.

Also, AF is done in PHL as of October so that ought to open up another A-West gate in time for the following summer.

 

[ClueByFour]

They should put Delta over with NWA, and move SWA to that hardstand and let them use people movers for a few months while they extend A-West. If people movers are no big deal, SWA should have no problem with them.

Why would PHL move an airline that's steadfastly paid their bills to the airport rather than one that stiffed it twice in bankruptcy and really has nowhere else to go?

It's not like US is gonna leave PHL, regardless of what the airport does. LUV--not so much.

 

[PHL Approach]

Yes, DL WILL move out of A-East sometime this year. AA will move out in 2010. It will be a 100% US terminal.

 

[Dog Wonder]

DL is cutting 170 gates in the merger. They will go where it saves the most money.

 

[FutureUScapt]

Yes, DL WILL move out of A-East sometime this year. AA will move out in 2010. It will be a 100% US terminal.

That's good to hear. So it appears as if AA will move once the E-hammerhead is complete. With the completion of the new D/E connector there is room for an airline club on the third level, so AA or DL should have no qualms about moving.

Do you know if there are any plans to connect the A-East gates to the FIS in A-West (similar to how the A-west gates are connected? That would really be big help to US in the future.

 

[phllax]

As I posted on FT and A.net

This makes no sense.

The simplest thing to do would be to move AA to the 4 Air Tran gates in D (12, 14, 15, 16)and move Air Tran down to A3 & A5 in A East. This allows DL to use A2,7,9,11 and in doing so free's up 1-2 international gates. This also leaves D10 open. Don't know if Air Tran's D gates can handle the 757, but UA does park one at D13. The Admiral's Club can be moved to the USO space inside security. It is currently outside security.

People have also metioned UA and CO sharing/cooperating with gates, but I just cannot see that happening in PHL with the amount of flights UA has (especially with the 2nd LAX flight coming back) and the amount of gates they have. UA has 5,7,9, 11 & 13. AC primarily uses D5, but so does UA. UA has something like 5-6 aircraft RON on an average night, and they need to keep 2 gates open for the SFO and LAX red-eyes. Occassionally they will use D10, but it's rare. Their current schedule is 2xSFO, 3xDEN, 1xLAX, 4xIAD, 7xORD but DEN and LAX increase over the summer. SFO might also go back to 3x.

AC has 5xYYZ

CO RON's 3 planes most nights: 2 mainline and 1 RJ. As an example, tonight they have the 2nd mainline park at D12 and the Dash parking at D10. Most days they have 6xCLE, 4xEWR, 5XIAH

 

[PHL]

Why would PHL push AA out of their gates? They aren't capable of handling international arrivals because A3/A5/A7 (and maybe A9?) don't have access to the customs/immigration hallway. Perhaps that part of the terminal could be renovated to provide this access. But then some of those gates probably also cannot handle anything bigger than a 757 and even that would be tough near A3/A5 . The only reason I could see AA moving is to have a club inside security, but I've used the AAdmirals club outside of A a gazillion times and have never had a problem getting to my gate.

 

[phllax]

PHL,

My rationalle for moving AA to D and AirTran to A is that AA needs 4 gates, while AirTran now only needs 2. AirTran gets A3 and A5. This would allow Delta in A to use 1-2 domestic (if A7 is domestic) and only 2-3 international, instead of making them tow the CDG flight to D come this fall. It also gives AA a club inside security. I'm pretty sure A9 is international, because the bar next to it seems to be able to be included in a sterile/transit area.

 

[FutureUScapt]

PHL,

My rationalle for moving AA to D and AirTran to A is that AA needs 4 gates, while AirTran now only needs 2. AirTran gets A3 and A5. This would allow Delta in A to use 1-2 domestic (if A7 is domestic) and only 2-3 international, instead of making them tow the CDG flight to D come this fall. It also gives AA a club inside security. I'm pretty sure A9 is international, because the bar next to it seems to be able to be included in a sterile/transit area.

But where would NW fit in on A-east, and then how would that make it any better than the current situation?

The combined DL/NW probably needs 6 gates, possibly 5.

BTW, I believe A5 does not have a jetway, so that wouldn't be very helpful for FL.


This "proposed" plan should work, although it does involve a bunch of musical chairs. Let's see:

DL leaves A10, A12, & A13; NW leaves E2, E4, & E6. They move into D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, and D14.

CO moves down from D6 & D8 to D15 and D16.

FL leaves D15 and D16 and takes E2 & E4.

WN leaves D4 and takes E6 instead.


Like I said, a lot of moving around...but its possible.

 

[usairways85]

Also, AF is done in PHL as of October so that ought to open up another A-West gate in time for the following summer.

DL is taking over the flight. If DL does move chances are the flight will arrive in A-East/West and then be towed to where ever DL ends up. Similar to what AF did for a while.

Why would PHL push AA out of their gates?

AA has reduced service out of PHL the past few years. Yes I know who hasn't to an extent, but AA seems to be more than the others. SJU is down to a 738, MIA is down to 3x 738, ORD is only 4x MD80s and 2x CR7s, DFW is 7x MD80s, STL is 3x ERD's. I do not believe the 752 is scheduled into PHL anymore so that shouldn't be a problem.

That is only 15 mainline flights, and 5 Eagle/Connection flights.


A majority of DL's flights are 752's so that will have to be considered when relocating them. Looking at FL's 4 gates in D I'm not sure if a 752 can fit in there. Moving AA to that location rather than DL will prevent DL having to tow their 752 that arrives from CDG and also avoids any issues due to space for the 752. DL/NW also need an area to park their many regional flights. D14 is a tough gate to do that.

 

[PHL]

The S80's will be gone in a few years as AA phases in the 738's. The wingspan (winglet version) is less than 10 feet different than a 757-200. So, AA would have a strong argument to keep gates that give enough space to fit up to a 752(even if they don't fly them in/out of PHL).

And, as the FT thread linked to the OP of this thread shows - no mention of AA has been made. It still seems as though someone "in the know" believes that the DL move to D is all that's on the books right now, and whomever gets bumped at D will move to the NW gates in E. Shuffling anyone else around in the short term might not make a lot of sense...yet.