Watch for this one to be another defect with the chem-mill step at the stringer to open bay transition. This sounds eerily like the 757 out of MIA.
That is only my opinion. I have no information from this accident to support that conclusion.
Southwest Flight 812
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That is only my opinion. I have no information from this accident to support that conclusion.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #17
news reports says that FAA records show the plane in Friday's incident was repaired about a year ago for a whole in the fuselage.
It certainly appears that there is a recurring problem here...
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and it does put pressure on Boeing to fix the problem completely or risk order defections... the Boeing narrowbody tube has been flying for decades... they should be able to get it right by this point.
It certainly appears that there is a recurring problem here...
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and it does put pressure on Boeing to fix the problem completely or risk order defections... the Boeing narrowbody tube has been flying for decades... they should be able to get it right by this point.
chris perry
Veteran
- Sep 17, 2008
- 544
- 118
I think most would agree that these skins are too thin.One only has to open the door of a new 737 very light thin. Also made in China contracted out. It comes with a nice stamp on the door. Although thinner doesnt mean cheaper or less safe,it means only these aircraft need to be inspected regularly. A properly maintained aircraft can last a lifetime. The drive to lower costs has impacted quality of work no question.It just hasnt showed up in the accident stats yet.This metality of just look at what we tell you too is coming home to roost.Its a night and day difference from 1991 maint program when I started... Its turned into "what can we get rid of looking at to save money"
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,907
- 9,359
Saturday's cancellations were around 200, Sunday's were around 300 earlier this afternoon.
Just shy of 10% of their weekday schedule, assuming they still run around 3,300 flights a day.
The 79 aircraft grounded represent around 14% of the fleet, so the cancellations for today, seem proportionate.
But that's on a weekend schedule....
It could be downright ugly tomorrow if half the -300 fleet remains grounded -- anywhere from 300 to 450 cancellations.
Just shy of 10% of their weekday schedule, assuming they still run around 3,300 flights a day.
The 79 aircraft grounded represent around 14% of the fleet, so the cancellations for today, seem proportionate.
But that's on a weekend schedule....
It could be downright ugly tomorrow if half the -300 fleet remains grounded -- anywhere from 300 to 450 cancellations.
jimntx
Veteran
Latest update: "Widespread cracking found in area where hole opened on a/c". Here's the link...
Story on CNN.com
Story on CNN.com
Where does Southwest get its heavy mtc done? Saying the area had been repaired in that area for cracks before...Maybe its time for the woman from the FAA to change her tune as far as outsourcing vs saftey, remember her a few weeks ago on the PBS Special on outsourcing saying the sytem works...tell that to the passengers who were looking out the skylight!!
BTW, great job crew of the a/c for bringing it down in a safe manor!!!
BTW, great job crew of the a/c for bringing it down in a safe manor!!!
jimntx
Veteran
That was a 757. We (AA) also had a 737 DCA-ORD divert to DAY because of a partial decompression!!!!
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,907
- 9,359
Did only part of the cabin decompress?... I know the media doesn't understand the difference, but the gradual loss of pressurization/inability to maintain pressure due to a bad seal is an every day occurrence somewhere...
Running tally of cancellations is available here:
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airline/airlineScorecard.do?airline=WN
As of 0825 Central, they're up to 75 cancellations.
jimntx
Veteran
The loss of pressure was sufficient that two of the f/as began to feel euphoric, and some passengers were complaining of inability to breathe. Pilots deployed the oxygen masks as a safety precaution and diverted to DAY. There was not much other information provided except mechanics went to DAY to check out the a/c and, a S80 was dispatched from ORD to pick up the passengers and crew. (Somehow there is a certain delicious irony in that.)
I have not found where someone has stated that this was a previously repaired area. I did read where it was at the lap joint. If this is the case, then Boeing should be nervous. Boeing has been concerned about lap joint cracks for decades. If anyone has a link to the mention of a previous repair being in the area of the failure pls post. Thx...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #28
WN is returning flights to normal at a fairly fast cliip but even a 10% cancellation rate is a bit misleading since their OT rating for Sunday was in the mid 60s, 20 points lower than most of their network peers with similar sized networks. Granted pulling 15% of the fleet is a major event but business travelers will likely avoid WN for this week if there is a choice given that WN is a ways from returning to a stable operation.... the current headline on Fox News doesn't help.
SOUTH-MESSED: More Cracks in Jets...
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The media is not necessarily your friend in these types of situations but airlines are highly public companies.. that is just part of the nature of the business.
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I believe there was a recent AA 757 incident that involved similar metal issues so the issue is not just a 737 problem....I don't know how similar or dissimilar the construction is on the 737 vs the 757 but other than the 737 esp. as used by WN being high cycle aircraft, there probably are more similarities than not.
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The question still remains whether sufficient techniques exist to identify these problems and if WN was using them; given that there appear to be similar issues with the 757, there will also be questions about whether sufficiently extensive inspections are being done on those aircraft.
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WN came out very early this weekend and said that it had done all of the required inspections on Friday's aircraft. Also, Boeing supposedly was coming out w/ a service bulletin, indicating the problems were not covered by previous directives. If so, then the issues of whether there was outsourcing or not are not near as important as whether inspections were sufficient.
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Finally, while I know there are a whole lot of people who get worked up with foreign maintenance work, I have yet to see evidence that it is statistically worse off or than US based maintenance is statistcally better. If you - and Congress - want to be able to say with certainty that there is a problem w/ outsourced or foreign maintenance, then there has to be hard statistics to say that. While there are no shortage of anecdotes - and I don't doubt them - there has to be solid statistics to really show that foreign maintenance bases or even US based MROs aren't cutting it.
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At the end of the day, the individual airline is responsible for its airplanes and the maintenance on them regardless of where it is done.
SOUTH-MESSED: More Cracks in Jets...
.
The media is not necessarily your friend in these types of situations but airlines are highly public companies.. that is just part of the nature of the business.
.
I believe there was a recent AA 757 incident that involved similar metal issues so the issue is not just a 737 problem....I don't know how similar or dissimilar the construction is on the 737 vs the 757 but other than the 737 esp. as used by WN being high cycle aircraft, there probably are more similarities than not.
.
The question still remains whether sufficient techniques exist to identify these problems and if WN was using them; given that there appear to be similar issues with the 757, there will also be questions about whether sufficiently extensive inspections are being done on those aircraft.
.
WN came out very early this weekend and said that it had done all of the required inspections on Friday's aircraft. Also, Boeing supposedly was coming out w/ a service bulletin, indicating the problems were not covered by previous directives. If so, then the issues of whether there was outsourcing or not are not near as important as whether inspections were sufficient.
.
Finally, while I know there are a whole lot of people who get worked up with foreign maintenance work, I have yet to see evidence that it is statistically worse off or than US based maintenance is statistcally better. If you - and Congress - want to be able to say with certainty that there is a problem w/ outsourced or foreign maintenance, then there has to be hard statistics to say that. While there are no shortage of anecdotes - and I don't doubt them - there has to be solid statistics to really show that foreign maintenance bases or even US based MROs aren't cutting it.
.
At the end of the day, the individual airline is responsible for its airplanes and the maintenance on them regardless of where it is done.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,907
- 9,359
The aircraft had previous cracks repaired, but I haven't seen where it was the actual joint that was repaired.
http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=14373138
leprechaun
Senior
Maybe you could use some of that Red Tape to close the hole.
