Supreme Court Rejects Death Penalty for Child Rape

[Cosworth]

Cosworth, Thank you. At least you are honest enough to state that your total opposition. I do wonder, however, how steadfast your position would be if one of those monsters got hold of one of your own.

My guess would be that I would want him/her dead as a door nail.

Having said that. I have always been told not to make a major decision while angry. This same philosophy is why it is not recommended that a doctor operate on family members. You are too close to have an objective point of view.

 

[MMB]

Why not call them what they are...pro-lifers.

That's funny.

It would be more funny if it didn't include physically and emotionally distroying a child.

 

[MMB]

Where in Washington did this last one happen?

Sadly, my state has the dubious distinction of having one of the highest drunk driving rates in the nation... Not a day goes by without the paper reporting a conviction for a 4th, 5th, 6th or even 7th offense.

I don’t know.
Jane was my land lady in '85 when I was living in San Antonio, Tx.
All this transpired while I was her tenant, so I was getting regular updates on her son’s … plight.
He had moved to Washington state some years before, but I don’t know where. He had two prior convictions for drunk driving and vehicular homicide when I met Jane. He was crashed up against a pole after driving through an enclosed bus stop when the police hauled him out of his car for his third arrest and conviction.
Jane was upset, but seemed more so because of Washington’s three strikes law than because he’d just killed more people. After the third conviction he was supposed to be transferred to the state prison for good, but some clerk made a mistake on the transfer papers. The state wanted to fill out new papers and complete the transfer, but his defense attorney said that wasn’t allowed and that he’d have to be released. They were fighting back and forth for a couple weeks about this when Jane went to Washington and promised to take him back home to Texas if they let him go. They released him and he did come home with his mom.
Back home he had a lot to say about his time in prison for the first two convictions. I guess he planted a lot of trees for the state. He made it sound more like summer camp than anything else. One thing I never heard him express was any remorse for the people he had killed or their families. It made me sick.

 

[Cosworth]

Curious. Do you think the death penalty is a deterrent or as disposing of a person who is unworthy (due to the nature of the crime) or unable (psychotic like Manson or Dahmer) to be rehabilitated. I do not like the term punishment because I relate punishment with an incentive. A dead person cannot be given an incentive.

 

[MMB]

My guess would be that I would want him/her dead as a door nail.

Having said that. I have always been told not to make a major decision while angry. This same philosophy is why it is not recommended that a doctor operate on family members. You are too close to have an objective point of view.

And if that guy was a repeat offender with multiple convictions?

My belief is that the people responsible for putting repeat criminals, especially violent criminals, back on the street should receive the same sentence as the offenders for any subsequent convictions. Manufacturers are responsible for putting dangerous or defective products on the street, even when the danger is unknown. Why should parole boards be any less responsible when they put a known violent criminal back on the street? Or, when there are established sentencing guidelines, a judge hands down a sentence that is less than maximum for repeat offenders.

And you’re right; jail, prison, and capital punishment are not deterrents. But the reason they are not is because nobody believes they will be caught. Or if they are caught, they’ll probably be let off. I can’t find it right now, but I read, about a year ago, that the average time served for murder is 1.5 years. That was total time served divided by total number of bodies. I know the guy who killed my great grandmother in Nebraska, 1974, served less than 3.5 years.

 

[MMB]

Curious. Do you think the death penalty is a deterrent or as disposing of a person who is unworthy (due to the nature of the crime) or unable (psychotic like Manson or Dahmer) to be rehabilitated. I do not like the term punishment because I relate punishment with an incentive. A dead person cannot be given an incentive.

I think I pretty much answered the first part of your question.

If you kill Manson; are you are clearly not punishing him, but you do free up jail space for someone who might be able to be rehabilitated. According to a documentary I saw on Manson, you’d be freeing up an entire wing of the prison he is in because he has to be kept separate from everyone else. And you eliminate any chance that he might be released on some technicality, like a clerical error.

In 1981, my house was broken in to after I left for work. My wife and 1 year old daughter were at home. When the police arrived they saw my wife’s pistol on a chair in the living room, and asked if she had shot the guy. She said no. (But that he had run out pretty fast when he saw the gun aimed at him.) The officer said that was too bad, as the bullet would leave no doubt about the identity of the suspect, or if he had in fact been to our home.
This guy had already served time for breaking into houses where he’d observed that women were alone, then beating and raping the women.
Questions for you:
Should she have been arrested for assault with a deadly weapon? She was not, but in some jurisdictions she could have been.
If she had shot and wounded him, should he have the right to sue us? He could have.
If she had killed him, should she have been arrested for murder? Manslaughter? Should she have been convicted? In some jurisdictions the answers would be probably not, yes, and yes.
If this guy was caught, and he eventually was caught in the home of a single woman, whom he had beaten, what sentence should he receive?
If he was out on parole at the time, should his parole board be at all culpable? Thanks to remnants of feudal law still in our system (The lord of the realm can not be held responsible) they are not.

 

[KCFlyer]

That's funny.

It would be more funny if it didn't include physically and emotionally distroying a child.

I give you the Catholic Church's definition of "pro life":

1. Against abortion
2. Against the death penalty
3. Against unjust war

It's amazing to me though that even though the candidate who met 2 of those 3 criteria in 2004 was not the one that the church supported.

Also...don't know if you've ever known anyone who had an abortion. My ex-wife and I did - when we were told that the fetus did not have a brain, and the only thing keeping it alive was her body...that when it was born, it would die within minutes. Talk about emotionally destroying someone's life. But...I guess the best thing to do is tell women that they should carry that baby to term...after all..the mothers physical life wasn't endangered...just the emotional life. We now return you to your discussion of the death penalty.

 

[KCFlyer]

One other thing...From many of the things I have read and heard, the inmate population has their own special "justice system" for child rapists. That 'justice system' may be worse than a death penalty.

 

[MMB]

This is where I came in to this conversation. When I worked for Beechcraft, the crew chief I worked for was hired through a government ‘hire an ex-con and get tax breaks’ program. He’s the one who first told me about that "justice system." You can go to prison for just about any crime you can imagine, and a few you wouldn’t want to imagine, and if you keep your head down and your mouth shut, you can do your time and get out with little or no trouble. However, hurting a child is considered so heinous that you will be sought out and watched. And, if you ever are put in the general population, you will be killed in such a way that you will wish that the state had done it. That,,, drive,, is so strong that someone who has hurt a child must be housed in a different section of the prison, and still have special protections.
Yet we have defense attorneys who say “It’s not about guilt or innocence. It’s not about fair vs. excessive punishment. The only thing that matters is if the state can prove it.â€￾ And even when they know that their client is guilty, they will use every avenue/loophole they have to put that vermin back out on the street.
And we have judges who turn these same vermin loose when they are convicted, and then say things like it was a “life lessonâ€￾ for the victim, or the child “probably consented.â€￾