Union elections and the RLA....POLL!

[Wings]

Dignity:

1. I think if you look at our current leadership at NWAAFA, you will find that they are not "career unionists".

2. I addressed the tone of your posts on this forum, not how you treat passengers and coworkers within the workplace.

3. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'm not the first one to finally say "enough is enough" where your posts are concerned. Try being a little more respectful if you want people to pay attention to your message.

4. I was addressing the Delta Forum - not the entire US Aviation Forum. But, I'm sure you "got that".

 

[Dignity]

Dignity:

1. I think if you look at our current leadership at NWAAFA, you will find that they are not "career unionists".

Baloney.

2. I addressed the tone of your posts on this forum, not how you treat passengers and coworkers within the workplace.

the tone is how you perceive it, not how it actually may be, absent body language, expression or hearing anything you have no idea what tone is implied.

3. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'm not the first one to finally say "enough is enough" where your posts are concerned. Try being a little more respectful if you want people to pay attention to your message.

a lot of people pay attention to me, in case you didnt notice.

why, I dont know?

why you do, dont have a clue?

it really bothers you what one single Flight Attendant out of 21,000 has to say,

huh?

4. I was addressing the Delta Forum - not the entire US Aviation Forum. But, I'm sure you "got that".

I am not just on this forum, and do not post to every thread or comment.

this isnt the only place to go on the vast Internet either..

dont try to make this personal, it doesnt reflect well on your own personal demeanor instilling respect.. you are trying to convince others are,

needing.


face it Wings, the only reason why you have isolated my comments is because,

I have questioned and brought up AFA not to your liking.

if you make one comment or go against the AFA flow at NWA you are not included in the click,

I work there,

I know all to well the style.

 

[Wings]

< Baloney. >

Really? We currently have (3) MEC leaders, (43) LEC leaders and (34) MEC Committee Chairs/Vice Chairs.

Out of all those FAs (80), the ones who have served in previous leadership positions at our other unions include approximately (10) people.

I think that is a fairly good indicator that new leaders have stepped up to the plate since AFA became our union three years ago. So, calling these FAs "career unionists" isn't quite accurate.

Feel free to verify that for yourself - http://nwaafa.org

 

[Dignity]

Thanks Wings,

maybe you can explain why we, members do not vote for the MEC positions or the appointment of friends to the MEC Committees while Pat had the rules changed for herself.

feel free to tell the DL Flight Attendants the whole story not what sounds good,

just to get in the front door.


career unionist, you better believe that is the case.

they would rather fight with Management rather than lift a finger and push a beverage cart,

so I am sorry but you are not fooling anyone.

You are absolutely entitled to your personal opinion, I think you are very wrong and taking the low road with this merger.

You have not even given DL a chance and they are trying to convince the combined group,

we are all going to be outsourced and how Management is out to get every single one of us.

That is not constructive, it is creating unnecessary stress that may not even be justified and furthermore,

I think they need to focus more on positive aspects, rather than always attempting to instill a negative tone.. that does not always allow a healthy working environment.

I know, I know.. the moment you bring up, "lets try and work with them" you get the silent treatment,

because,

oh forbid if you actually find out they are nice people and will work with us, that totally dismisses the need for a union.

that is probably half the reason why these nonsense seniority lawsuits were filed and hoping to keep division, just to keep a sense that a union is actually needed.

I think some are being very unfair and making a lot of assumptions at a company,

none of us have ever been employed.


I hope and focus on a bright future.

it is time to move forward..


what else can we do, stay in the past and attend a pity party?

not me.

 

[Wings]

I rest my case. You've proven my previous point quite well.

Have a good evening.

 

[Dignity]

You too Wings, it was a pleasure showing how it actually plays out when you question the AFA.

*thank you for your participation proving it.


Dignity


Have a pleasant evening.

 

[john john]

yeah and set some us of back 30 years.

I

Please explain

 

[Dignity]

It is not necessarily only a financial amount that has set our group back decades, as that is clearly obvious.
But also a sense and real need for teamwork internally.

Let me explain,

As Flight Attendants, we were being represented by one of the largest and most powerful
labor unions in this country. We, as a group managed to attain an industry leading contract.
Ironically, the first initial tentative agreement was rejected by the group. Due to a grass roots effort, convincing
enough people, that it wasn't good enough. The second tentative agreement, negotiated by Teamsters was industry leading, at that time.

A group of motivated Flight Attendants, including former Teamsters leaders campaigned for an independent union.
The concept of a independent union is not really a bad idea, rather the devastating timing this grass roots effort took
upon themselves, convincing the majority, it was the right thing to do protecting us from concessions. It was not the right thing to do.

Many of those same individuals, who petitioned so heavily for the independent union. Simply walked away from it only to resurface again during the next representational campaign, only this time supporting someone else.

A learning lesson.

After the Teamsters yellow book was abrogated and subsequent failure of PFAA tentative agreement. Once again
a group of motivated Flight Attendants took it upon themselves solicited AFA. In the middle of not only our contract just being abrogated, but at a time moral was the lowest point in our careers during a period of bankruptcy.

A lot of promises were made, and many were convinced the AFA would establish and correct the perceived unjust actions.

What ended up happening was PFAA Tentative Agreement evaluations were modified and when the group opened the tentative agreement two, after all the promises made, flat out rejected that agreement.

It only got worse from there on out, as a significant majority were willing to reject the third agreement and equity claim.

Why has this set us back?

We have a group of former Leaders and activist still to this day fighting over the internal politics of the PFAA and AFA.
That infighting will create problems for the entire group.

It will carry over.

You see it is not necessarily a Union, rather than two particular groups and their union ideas who still have a wedge to grind with each other.

That has set us back, as we try to move forward.

It is all really just politics, however these two groups, former PFAA supporters and AFA Leaders, who will not let it go
will create a new set of issues, for the combined group. Based on the fact some are still convinced the AFA raided the PFAA and the need for some to maintain power positions.

This is real and needs to be addressed and brought to the DL Flight Attendants attention should representation become
successful.

There are many other issues that may hinder the combined the group other than just seeking a contract.

Basically there is a whole other can of worms, that is going to be sitting right on the table with everything else.

It is starting to unfortunately appear one consideration, we are going to have to leave both behind and try to move forward, as we heal as a group, working together focused on teamwork, customer service that enables a true positive
working environment, keeping in mind representation would still be available at a later time. If for some reason it was needed, such as a completely different union altogether which is not PFAA "independent" or AFA, because the "PFAA" and "AFA" have left such a sour taste, neither will be or considered effective. However if there was a "need" it must be a complete new entity that is neither the two previous with complete new leadership. I do not foresee a need, if the group actively participates leaving the past in the past and focuses on the future and really attempts to work together.

(I know from personal experience you can attain a Union at some time in the future, as we went through three)

There are two groups who cannot get on the same page without a constant need of conflict and that is a real issue.

There is a very small group who have managed to create so many problems by Union infighting, it has set us back more than just in a financial sense, it is the ability to work together resolving issues.

I often wonder if these people would have simply left well enough alone and we remained Teamsters, would a lot of these issues simply been avoided, especially the real setback the division and infighting has created.

The question would be?

Will the combined group over look all the real issues, just for the sake of having something in writing, that may just in fact not allow these promises made to be fulfilled due to internal politics?

 

[southwind]

Don't waste your time Dig..................once union-blinders have been installed on the minions, there's no other view !

 

[BABABOOY]

So this is what we have to look forward to with the AFA?
More infighting?
I think not.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

This is weird.
It says on the list of topics that the last post under this thread was "today" but this last post (from BB) is 4 days old.

tap,tap,tap,.......is this thing on??????? :huh:

 

[Kev3188]

If someone votes in the poll, it'll register that as the latest "post."

 

[john john]

You see it is not necessarily a Union, rather than two particular groups and their union ideas who still have a wedge to grind with each other.

That has set us back, as we try to move forward.

Sounds like you have some confident motivate and very involved union leadership trying to do what they think is best for the largest airline in America. Sounds familiar all elective high stake officials will have excitement. YOU JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE INVOLVED

 

[Dignity]

Sounds like you have some confident motivate and very involved union leadership trying to do what they think is best for the largest airline in America.

exactly, they are doing what they want minus actually asking anyone.

Sounds familiar all elective high stake officials will have excitement.

personally, prefer an official attempting to have,

1. a real sense and ability maintaining labor peace
2. rational thinking
3. realistic expectations
4. an ability to compromise
5. a work ethic
6. responsibility and personal accountability
7. foresight to resolve issues timely
8. sense of professionalism without using scare tactics
9. a plan that instills teamwork as a priority while really trying to work with Management
10. a sense of fairness by allowing every official leadership position selected by a vote.

YOU JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE INVOLVED

how long have you been a NW Flight Attendant familiar with our union(s)?


Happy Holiday!

 

[john john]

personally, prefer an official attempting to have,

1. a real sense and ability maintaining labor peace
2. rational thinking
3. realistic expectations
4. an ability to compromise
5. a work ethic
6. responsibility and personal accountability
7. foresight to resolve issues timely
8. sense of professionalism without using scare tactics
9. a plan that instills teamwork as a priority while really trying to work with Management
10. a sense of fairness by allowing every official leadership position selected by a vote.



how long have you been a NW Flight Attendant familiar with our union(s)?


Happy Holiday!

I’m not good luck with the VOTE and everything you wish for union or non-union?????????????????????????