US Airways Looking to replace 737s

700UW

Corn Field
Nov 11, 2003
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If airlines buy now, will they pay later?
Aging metal jets need replacing, but lighter plastic models are in works that may soon render them second-rate
STEVE HARRISON
[email protected]
If airlines buy now,

will they pay later? Aging metal jets need replacing, but lighter plastic models are in works that may soon render them second-rate Steve Harrison

Ever bought a personal computer, only to see a faster, better model released a month later?

US Airways and other airlines are in a similar situation. They need hundreds of new single-aisle planes to replace older, less fuel-efficient aircraft, but they worry their new planes will become obsolete overnight.

The reason is the Boeing 787, a wide-body plane that analysts say will revolutionize the economics of flying. The Boeing 787, known as the Dreamliner, is being built with lighter-weight composite plastics, allowing it to fly farther, faster -- and using less fuel -- than metal aircraft. The plane also will have passenger-friendly improvements, such as bigger windows and higher cabin humidity.

The airline industry assumes that Chicago-based Boeing -- and perhaps other airplane manufacturers -- will soon extend this technology to smaller, single-aisle aircraft, such as the venerable Boeing 737.

The question: When?

Airlines are worried that if they buy a traditional metal plane today, it could be yesterday's technology quickly.

"If I'm stuck with a metal airplane and my competition has composite, that will put me at a 15 percent cost disadvantage," said airline consultant Mike Boyd of the Boyd Aviation Group in Evergreen, Colo.

US Airways, whose largest hub is in Charlotte, wants to replace its aging Boeing 737 300 and 400 series jets, which were first flown by airlines in the mid 1980s. The decision is crucial for the airline, because 737s do much of its medium-range flying, and they are 96 of the airline's 357 mainline aircraft.

The airline said it would initially replace 60 in the next year or two, with the rest of the older 737s to be phased out later.


"For all of the airlines this is an important factor," said US Airways Chief Financial Officer Derek Kerr. "When will Boeing make the decision to go with a new plane? If you order something today, you could have an inferior plane that isn't competitive."

The airline is studying a number of options.

Should it go ahead and buy planes with current technology from Boeing or its competitor Airbus? Or should it hold tight and wait for something better?

Another possibility: The airline could pay more for a short-term lease of metal aircraft, giving it flexibility to dump the planes if composites become available.

"Once we get our own internal analysis (on the urgency of the airline's replacement needs), we'll hammer the manufacturers on when this will happen," Kerr said.

Boeing has said it wants to build a new 737 with Dreamliner technology -- analysts have dubbed it the 737-P, for plastic -- but it hasn't announced a timetable.

The airline must make sure a composite 737 would be at least 20 percent more efficient than its current model to justify production costs.

"It's very difficult to make the Boeing 737 even more efficient," said Boeing spokeswoman Sandra Angers.

Boeing announced the 787 Dreamliner in 2004 as rival Airbus was basking in the initial success of the Airbus A380, the double-decker jumbo jet that could seat as many as 800 in an all-coach configuration. The A380 is being built with conventional materials.

Boeing is taking a different approach. Instead of a building a massive plane that could ferry large numbers of people between congested airports, Boeing bet on the 787, a long-range, twin-engined plane that can fly between 210 and 330 passengers, depending on how it is configured.

When built, the 787 will be more aerodynamic than a traditional jet, including larger wings that curve upward. Its engines are designed to use less fuel. But most importantly, more than half of the plane will be built from composite plastic.

That means it will use less fuel than conventional aluminum planes. As oil prices have hovered around $60 and $70 a barrel, Boeing's bet on fuel economy appears to be a smart decision.

For passenger comfort, Boeing has said the Dreamliner will have larger windows that are 19 inches tall and can be dimmed by pressing a button. It will have larger in-cabin luggage bins and more humidity in the cabin, making passengers feel less fatigued after long flights.

The 787 should make its first flight at the end of 2007 and go into commercial service in 2008.

The current version of the 737 is the 737 New Generation, which refers to the 600, 700, 800 and 900 series of the jet. Boeing says those planes have operating costs 5 percent to 10 percent lower than the 737 300 and 400 series, which US Airways is trying to replace.

The shape of the 737 dates back to the 1960s, though the company has updated the engines, wings and avionics.

Airline consultant Robert Mann said rumors are flying about the 737-P.

"There has been a lot of talk that Southwest is already in talks with Boeing," Mann said. "They are their biggest buyer."

Financially struggling American carriers haven't expanded their mainline fleets this decade, but they do need to replace aging aircraft. Mann points to American Airlines, which has more than 300 gas-guzzling MD-80s, and Northwest, which has more than 50 DC-9s -- some of which are more than 30 years old -- as prime candidates for the new plane.

"The pressure is building at all American airlines for single-aisle replacements," Mann said. "Some will be replaced with smaller aircraft, but not all. (With a new plane) you'll see 20 percent more efficiency in an industry where a 5 percent profit margin is elusive."

Boyd said Boeing's success with the Dreamliner has a downside. Because airlines are excited about the new fuel-efficient technology, their hesitancy to buy metal planes could hurt sales of the 737, the biggest-selling commercial jet ever.

"The 787 is replacing a dying line (the 767)," Boyd said. "The 737 is their cash cow. And the minute they announce the 737-P, no one will want metal."

Airbus is building a competitor to the 787, known as the A350. The new model has been criticized by airlines as not efficient enough, and the European company is trying to increase the use of composites in the plane.

Boyd said companies such as Bombardier and Embraer, a Brazilian manufacturer, that have had success building small regional jets wouldn't be cannibalizing their own market if they could develop a composite 150-seat jet.

Bombardier, a Canadian firm, had announced plans to develop a jet with more than 100 seats, though not out of composites. That project -- known as the C-series -- has been delayed, though spokesman Marc Halloran said work is ongoing.

Passenger-friendly Features Expected to Come With New Technology
 
700UW thanks for posting the article. I was just out in PHX and spent a little time in their Ramp Tower or Command Center as it's called in the west. Really nice people, thanks for the tour guys, anyway point of story is this. When T4 was built HP ony had 737's and that is what many of the gates where designed for. There are quite a few gates that will not accomodate a 319/320/738 etc unless the gate next door was left open. So if the current HP 733 fleet was replaced by 319/320/738 or this new proposed 737P there could be gate issues. Perhaps in CLT/PHL as well as 733/734 have a significanty narrower wingspan than the 320/738 family. Just my two cents.

Regards

LGA777
 
CLT is not a problem, plenty of room between gates.
 
Yep the E190 indeed. Pilots flying it for less money and only two f/a's in the back. There ya go. Junior f/a's to boot. That service will blow. Some of those 737's DO need replaced. Will we ever grow? :rolleyes:
 
Yep the E190 indeed. Pilots flying it for less money and only two f/a's in the back. There ya go. Junior f/a's to boot. That service will blow. Some of those 737's DO need replaced. Will we ever grow? :rolleyes:
Junior f/a's only when it first comes online. I am telling you and "mark these words"..once those senior folks find out how easy going and how great of an a/c it is...these planes will go senior for f/a's. Both f/a's will always have own galley. Passengers are delighted with the a/c. You'll see. It is a great plane.
 
Well if anyone is more senior and has a desire to do it go right on ahead. While the plane is new and pretty the service as it is set right now will suck beyond words. They are going to use that plane on some longer flights such as houston. Houston as Dallas does will have a two choice breakfast, lunch or dinner. By the time the "A" is finished fussing around up front the "B" in the meantime is working all 22rows of coach alone. Selling BOB and doing a beverage. NO thanks....have fun.
 
CLT is not a problem, plenty of room between gates.

CLT is a major problem.

Their attitude is athema to expansion. They are crybabies locked into the paradigm they sucked tutu for. I say, split them off, and let them suck to their retirement so they can pay off their double-wides. Bastards.

The rest of the world has past them by. Then they get all "victim" on you. Witness a garbage hauler in Bombay. Get paid more than an F/O reserve in CLT. Are you CLT dudes, like, stupid? Do I need to ask?

One idiot wrote me and said, yes, I make less than a garbage hauler in Bombay, but, I get to bypass security in CLT! Yes cretin, too bad the garbage hauler never has to go through security!, richard!

What is wrong with the idiots in CLT? Can someone be a pilot and still be stupid?
 
CLT is a major problem.

Their attitude is athema ? to expansion. They are crybabies locked into the paradigm (sp.) they sucked tutu for. I say, split them off, and let them suck to their retirement so they can pay off their double-wides. Bastards.

The rest of the world has past (sp.) them by. Then they get all "victim" on you. Witness a garbage hauler in Bombay. Get paid more than an F/O reserve in CLT. (mean to connect?) Are you CLT dudes, like, stupid? Do I need to ask?

One idiot wrote me and said, yes, I make less than a garbage hauler in Bombay, but, I get to bypass security in CLT! Yes cretin (sp.) ,too bad the garbage hauler never has to go through security!, (R)richard! (?)

What is wrong with the idiots in CLT? Can someone be a pilot and still be stupid?
sharktooth, what does "athema" mean?
Why can't you make a coherent full statement?
We're still looking for that "cool northern efficiency".
####! :down:
 
Yep the E190 indeed. Pilots flying it for less money and only two f/a's in the back. There ya go. Junior f/a's to boot. That service will blow. Some of those 737's DO need replaced. Will we ever grow? :rolleyes:

You can change it, if you want. I, among others, have access to the brakes, among other aspects. Say what you want. For once.
 
sharktooth, what does "athema" mean?
Why can't you make a coherent full statement?
We're still looking for that "cool northern efficiency".
####! :down:

Athema, go to the liberal provided free library to look up that word.

When a320av8r gets his lips separated from mngts tutu, maybe we can understand its ravings.

They aren't here to feather your nest, freakajoid. They are here to make you bow down and contibute more to themselves, like you are too stupid to comprehend simple english, not that I would expect the CLT dudes to understand intelligence at all, porker. Oh, sorry, turkey.
 

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