US Airways Pilots' Labor Discussion 4/2-4/8

[Pi brat]

We have no idea what the future holds, but Mr. Johnson's arrival does not bode well for any hope for a positive turn in labor relations at this company - and that is probably a direct result of USAPA's terrible performance at the negotiating table and their failure to build any positive relationships with management to get us anywhere close to on track for a new contract.

That has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen in print. I think I now know who writes USAPA watch.

 

[nic4us]

Seperate ops..an idea that actually works

Separate ops does not work for me... Unless the NMB would like to reconsider its single carrier status ruling, find the representation election was in error....dismember USAPA and hold two separate elections.

I do agree that intermix of the crews would be interesting to say the least.

 

[EastUS]

I do agree that intermix of the crews would be interesting to say the least.

Nic, honestly (and as one of like mind as yourself, about not being "unsafely distracted" nor finding ANY ridiculous reasons for childish denial of jumpseats)..how would you see it even working out, with so very many of the people involved here? I believe that at least we two could quickly agree on the absurdity of having to "mitigate" anyone's "anxiety" to fly as proper professionals...BUT...very sadly; that doesn't seem the least bit of any universal notion in some quarters......

Seriously; If even hosting a jumpseater puts many out west into the "red"...well....It's pretty tough to imagine viable CRM taking place if they flew with east people operationally.

 

[luvn737s]

1) It's my honest feeling that you need no help with that from any external source. Given that the west's been of zero use in even helping the very efforts that would/may well return west furloughees to the line..etc.

Yes, I can see how you can get the inpression that the west has not been helping out.

For instance, they didn't help out with the original crafting of the USAPA C&BL's (as I recall, they were not invited - I guess the back of the van was getting cramped). And they didn't participate in USAPA's polling of the west pilots before they decided to make changes to a contract that didn't apply to 99% of those voting on it (oops, sorry they didn't poll the west pilots. Who cares what they think anyhow,eh?). No, it's obvious that disenfranchising your constituency is more cost-effective than actually trying to serve them.

Dang- wasn't that USAPA's complaint about ALPA?

The memory's the second thing to go.

I just heard what the US in US Airways stands for: Un Salvageable

 

[EastUS]

Yes, I can see how you can get the inpression that the west has not been helping out.

"Justify" it with all the attempted self portrayal of being but poor "victims" that you want...the truth remains that the west's record is hardly one of even attempting anything but sabotage. Before USAPA even came into existence, the PHX roadshow demonstrated to any viewers what your positons were/are really about...and ANY, even slight efforts at participation at ANY level were clearly not among them.

"The memory's the second thing to go."...Evidently....

 

[Dog Wonder]

Word is US Airways turned down arbitration.

I guess they want this catfight to continue.

 

[nic4us]

Nic, honestly (and as one of like mind as yourself, about not being "unsafely distracted" nor finding ANY ridiculous reasons for childish denial of jumpseats)..how would you see it even working out, with so very many of the people involved here? I believe that at least we two could quickly agree on the absurdity of having to "mitigate" anyone's "anxiety" to fly as proper professionals...BUT...very sadly; that doesn't seem the least bit of any universal notion in some quarters......

Seriously; If even hosting a jumpseater puts many out west into the "red"...well....It's pretty tough to imagine viable CRM taking place if they flew with east people operationally.

I said I agree. There are commuters avoiding opposite side metal, even if it would get them home sooner, just because they do not want to have to ask for a jumpseat, much less ride it.

 

[V1cut]

Yes, I can see how you can get the inpression that the west has not been helping out.

For instance, they didn't help out with the original crafting of the USAPA C&BL's (as I recall, they were not invited - I guess the back of the van was getting cramped). And they didn't participate in USAPA's polling of the west pilots before they decided to make changes to a contract that didn't apply to 99% of those voting on it (oops, sorry they didn't poll the west pilots. Who cares what they think anyhow,eh?). No, it's obvious that disenfranchising your constituency is more cost-effective than actually trying to serve them.

Dang- wasn't that USAPA's complaint about ALPA?

The memory's the second thing to go.

I just heard what the US in US Airways stands for: Un Salvageable

Ah, but you seem to conveniently forget the wests' gameplan...it's OK, I can help you.


CJ Szmal wrote, (and I quote):

"If there is a lesson I learned from this mess it is; "things can get worse". If *****puts in for USAPA Rep, we all lose. It legitimizes their claim that the west is represented and diminished our ability to claim otherwise..."


( I can go on, but I think thats good enough to basically negate your point in it's entirety)

These and other notable quotes are in the litigation library...I'm sure Wake finds them...compelling.

 

[luvn737s]

Are you familiar with the term "Straw Man" ?

Yes, yes you are.

 

[luvn737s]

"Justify" it with all the attempted self portrayal of being but poor "victims" that you want...the truth remains that the west's record is hardly one of even attempting anything but sabotage. Before USAPA even came into existence, the PHX roadshow demonstrated to any viewers what your positons were/are really about...and ANY, even slight efforts at participation at ANY level were clearly not among them.

Who said anything about victimhood?

Please defend your union's anti-west strategy in terms of it's success for the entire pilot group.

That usapa chose to disenfranchise the west because they felt their superior numbers combined with their superior attittude was a superior strategy is a fact, not a complaint.

Please defend your unions choice to not poll the very pilot group it would like you to believe it represents before publicly gutting it's contract. There is no pretense at representing the west pilot's interests, even with having David Weeks whitewash their fence for them with the reserve misaward. You enjoy re-hashing the same 3 quotes from a west pilot, but can you flood us with quotes from usapa "leadership" where they emphasize their committment to serving the interests of the west pilots and their committment to place unity above personal interest? That would be something worth reading.

But you can't because neither they, nor the committment behind such statements exists.

 

[nostradamus]

Are you familiar with the term "Straw Man" ?

Yes, yes you are.

Integrity Matters when it is convenient to thyself

 

[V1cut]

Are you familiar with the term "Straw Man" ?

Yes, yes you are.

Hilarious. You describe ME as a straw man for quoting one of your "brain trust" out there from your war chest chatroom. Classic. I encourage everyone to read some of the exhibits A,B,C.D....
to quote Doc Holiday" "...very informative..."

For the future: remember that your words will come back to haunt you. (They did just now)

 

[V1cut]

Who said anything about victimhood?

Please defend your union's anti-west strategy in terms of it's success for the entire pilot group.

That usapa chose to disenfranchise the west because they felt their superior numbers combined with their superior attittude was a superior strategy is a fact, not a complaint.

Please defend your unions choice to not poll the very pilot group it would like you to believe it represents before publicly gutting it's contract. There is no pretense at representing the west pilot's interests, even with having David Weeks whitewash their fence for them with the reserve misaward. You enjoy re-hashing the same 3 quotes from a west pilot, but can you flood us with quotes from usapa "leadership" where they emphasize their committment to serving the interests of the west pilots and their committment to place unity above personal interest? That would be something worth reading.

But you can't because neither they, nor the committment behind such statements exists.

You have a problem you choose to ignore at your own peril: that your claims of USAPA's failure to "fairly represent" are in no way associated with the west's documented strategy to AVOID representation. In that, you are likely in for a surprise. You cannot on one hand claim a failure of DFR while ignoring your active and voluntary "avoidance of FR"....the two will be linked via testimony and documentation for the court. I read some of your chat room...you guys screwed yourselves with your bravado to each other.


ta ta...

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Ah, but you seem to conveniently forget the wests' gameplan...it's OK, I can help you.


CJ Szmal wrote, (and I quote):

"If there is a lesson I learned from this mess it is; "things can get worse". If *****puts in for USAPA Rep, we all lose. It legitimizes their claim that the west is represented and diminished our ability to claim otherwise..."


( I can go on, but I think thats good enough to basically negate your point in it's entirety)

These and other notable quotes are in the litigation library...I'm sure Wake finds them...compelling.

Wow, that's powerful stuff. It's almost as compelling as nostradamus linking the original rico complaint. Keep up the good work.

 

[nostradamus]

""Another member is CJ Szmal, who participated in the “O-K Corral.â€￾ He wanted DOH for our CAs in return for getting credit for his furlough and “DASH-8â€￾ turbo-prop time.""