US Pilots Labor Thread 1/21 to 1/27

[cleardirect]

oldiebutgoodie


Okay, I'll bite. Could you please reprint the company's "letter of acceptance" as you call it, of the Nic award. I've been here through most of the process, and don't recall what it says. Oh, and no fair paraphrasing. Just print the contents of the letter. I suspect you'll be looking for it a long while, since the company didn't send one.

The company accepted the USAPA letter just as they did the ALPA one, during the negotiation process.

Oldie,

Any comment this week about the two letters of acceptance? Care to retract your incorrect statements?

Listed under accepted
http://usapawatch.com/

 

[Megasnoop]

Brice announced that over the weekend. I doubt very much you're going to think he "gets it" for very long.

He's a dyed in the wool Westie and certainly no friend of yours.

I think he gets it, from reading his announcement (no secret, its all over the net). Dyed in the wool Westie. No problem with that, with him representing your side internally or "our" mutual side when dealing with the company. You needed a voice bad. NIC/DOH aside, were probably 95% agreed on everything else. On 5% where we different, you need representation bad. He wasnt intimidated by any westie not to run. But "no friend of yours." We got east reps who are no friend of mine, but are doing the job. Now 2 you guys stepping up, since Mitch Vasin joined, paid up and doing grievances. usapa doesnt have any problem with him even if he keeps bashing us on ****loop. Were the big, leaky tent, Mtro. anyone can join. no one turned away. Were shameless dues hogs. DOH/NIC/DFR are going to work themselves out in the courts, not on chat boards. DOH will remain unless you get the majority before a single contract. I get 18% pay raise January 2010. Life is good. Snoop



Meet The New Phx Rep
To all,
Today, at my request, I have been appointed temporary PHX representative (through April 15th 2009) by USAPA. I came to the conclusion a few weeks ago that we cannot leave any stone unturned in our quest for justice. . Brice LeCarre

EDITED DOWN BY THE SNOOP TO COMPLY WITH MODERATOR DIRECTIONS ABOUT POSTING ENTIRE POSTS AND VIOLATIONS COPYRIGHTS. I DONT HAVE A LINK. I GOT THIS VIA MANY-LAYERED EMAIL. DONT KNOW THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, BUT MY BPR SAYS ITS TRUE. LeCarre made his case for why he stepped up. He is a dyed in the wool westie. He talked about bigger fish to fry (company). Said regardless of what union is on the letterhead, its pilots vs company. Cant delay the battle by not having west reps. Mentioned awappa/aol telling west pilots to get involved. Overcame his recalcitrance and got involved. Told bradford he was a westie first. He said this marks the recall of CLT running the PHX pilots. Hes also going to run for permanent base commander.

 

[cleardirect]

Sharktooth,

You accused a man of lying last week. I ask you to back up your charges. So far there has been nothing. Would you care to prove your accusations or retract your statement?

sharktooth

The moral high ground is held by those with integrity. Binding arbitration is but a piece of negotiation, something that can change when the players change. There is a consequence to not paying dues just as there is one for harassing "brother pilots", termination. USAPA published two opposing points of view. I agree, they should not have published O'Neill's lies.

I pointed out Monda's lies. Please be so kind to point to Mr. O'Neill's lies as you say. Prove that he lied. Just because it does not fit into you fantasy world does not make then lies.

At the time of the merger, 1,751 of the 5,000 East-based US Airways pilots were laid off.

Is this a lie?

So, when the arbitrator came back with a decision that provided US Airways' Eastern pilots with the 517 most senior spots on the integrated seniority list,

Is this a lie?

The middle spots were a ratio of pilots from both airlines, based upon a formula that the arbitrator and two neutral pilots from other airlines felt best represented fairness for all.

Is this a lie?

Date-of-hire seniority puts the majority of the former America West pilots at the bottom of the list, even below those who were unemployed when the merger took place.

Do you think that this is a lie?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm delighted that a PHX pilot finally stepped up. It's true that the east and west agree on most issues, and at least now the west will have one of their own helping defend those issues. It doesn't matter if he hates USAPA and what many in the west feel it stands for. He is entirely correct that the west really needs someone "inside."

 

[Richard]

Quick reminder folks:

You may NOT post articles or information from other sites without the express written permission of the author/publisher. You may provide one paragraph or headline followed by a link provided the site is informative or news based.

Also links to sites which could serve to inflame things around here will be removed without comment. This INCLUDES sites which promote or support one side in a dispute...this site is completely neutral and cannot allow such referrals.

Please be considerate of all posters on these boards and help us to observe copyright law.

Thank you.

 

[Tiger 1050]

I get 18% pay raise January 2010. Life is good. Snoop

I for one hope you do get that raise. But I would not count on it like you are. Your statement sounds too confident considering the language... What will you say if come Jan 2010 and no raise? Like I said I hope you get it...

For the record I was never in favor of the "no parity for the east" garbage. It just seemed petty and vindictive. It was nothing more than a bargaining chip used by the politicians among us. And I hate politicians... To quote Capt Kramer (airplane!) "They're all cheats and liars!"

 

[nycbusdriver]

What will you say if come Jan 2010 and no raise?

That could certainly be considered a major dispute and federal require mediation. Absent a resolution and with a release from mediation, the 30-day cooling off period starts, then self-help.

I doubt we will ever get to that point. I believe we will have a contract in place before 4th quarter this year. Addington and Breeger suits might even be settled by then and Section 22 will reflect those results. If the suits aren't settled, the contract may be changed by court order after it takes effect.

 

[sharktooth]

Do you think that this is a lie?

Yes.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes.

Proof please. Any evidence at all.

 

[Megasnoop]

That could certainly be considered a major dispute and federal require mediation. Absent a resolution and with a release from mediation, the 30-day cooling off period starts, then self-help.

Not so sure if no the auto pay raise is a major dispute. I think just another grievance. Its "only" money! But we can file Section 6 in June. Then if the company plays games on the pay, maybe we can get that early release. Lot of hoops to jump through before that happens.

(From the Tiger1050)

I for one hope you do get that raise. But I would not count on it like you are. Your statement sounds too confident considering the language...

Language, along with our negotiator notes, alpa concessionary contract policy, intent. It looks pretty good. Dont know how you guys handled negotiations, but alpa concessionary contract policy, unlike their murky merger policy language, is very specific. alpa concessionary contracts are not open-ended. They have end dates. Dont think anyone ever expected wed last until 2010. (note, I quit alpa over loa93)

What will you say if come Jan 2010 and no raise? Like I said I hope you get it...

And thanks, hope we get it too. But if not, Ill just hope for another bumper corn crop and no change by Obama on ethanol subsidies.

For the record I was never in favor of the "no parity for the east" garbage. It just seemed petty and vindictive. It was nothing more than a bargaining chip used by the politicians among us. And I hate politicians... To quote Capt Kramer (airplane!) "They're all cheats and liars!"

It was on the edge and unnecessary, Tiger. Maybe were getting over all the pettiness. This is all going to be resolved in court, not with chat-board insults. But when you look at our 15 vs your 12-year pay scheme, our differential pay on the big iron, our past stock bonus, our 2010 bonus, all that stuff, some of your tick-tock guys didnt realiz how close we really are in overall wage package. Ive pretty much given up trying to counter irrational snipe from either side with rational response. snooper

 

[cleardirect]

It was on the edge and unnecessary, Tiger. Maybe were getting over all the pettiness. This is all going to be resolved in court, not with chat-board insults. But when you look at our 15 vs your 12-year pay scheme, our differential pay on the big iron, our past stock bonus, our 2010 bonus, all that stuff, some of your tick-tock guys didnt realiz how close we really are in overall wage package. Ive pretty much given up trying to counter irrational snipe from either side with rational response. snooper

Snoop,

You just laid out a pretty big cost increase to the company. With no return back to the company. That is not good for bid-ness.

Many east pilots on here have pointed out that the west has taken the brunt of the furloughs. Because the west is the more expensive labor force. If the east gets your increases what do you think the company is going to do? Continue transferring flying to the east? Or whipsaw the groups and transfer that flying back to the now cheaper group?

I think that this falls under the be careful what you wish for.

 

[BajaBabe]

Edit

 

[sharktooth]

Proof please. Any evidence at all.

Please denote when you are talking about, announcement of "merger", ceremonious "merger", or just whenever you decide to hack the clock?

Despite that, MDA was part of US. Sorry to say the "list", as presented to the "nic", was wrong.

I have always found that in business, many opportunities to lie present themselves. In my observations, those lying generally lose. In your case, your "reps" knew that the east list was a lie. They laid low and will now pay the penalties.

 

[boeingplt]

Excerpt from USAPAwatch

""...The majority of west pilots have wrongly concluded that joining is futile as their minority status will render their votes moot. We believe this to be fallacious thinking. The thought of a Cleary, Mowrey, Davis, and Bauhan led union is completely repugnant to many on the east. Spend some time in an east crew room and you will hear this first hand. It’s entirely possible that the west votes will be enough to block this destructive gang from actually taking office...."



"Staying on the sidelines as non-payers or objectors is exactly what Cleary is counting on. "



"Becoming members in good standing is critical to their defeat. Remember, individuals on this ticket have already demonstrated their vindictiveness and outright disdain for the west pilot group....."...


Oh My! Might want to google usapa election to learn more.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Excerpt from USAPAwatch

""...The majority of west pilots have wrongly concluded that joining is futile as their minority status will render their votes moot. We believe this to be fallacious thinking. The thought of a Cleary, Mowrey, Davis, and Bauhan led union is completely repugnant to many on the east. Spend some time in an east crew room and you will hear this first hand. It’s entirely possible that the west votes will be enough to block this destructive gang from actually taking office...."



"Staying on the sidelines as non-payers or objectors is exactly what Cleary is counting on. "



"Becoming members in good standing is critical to their defeat. Remember, individuals on this ticket have already demonstrated their vindictiveness and outright disdain for the west pilot group....."...


Oh My! Might want to google usapa election to learn more.

Doug Mowery (different person than Randall Mowrey) is running for USAPA president. For what it's worth, I think he is the most knowledgeable, level-headed, even-handed, fair-minded and downright smart person that any union could wish to have in a leadership position. The consummate gentleman, Doug Mowery is the perfect candidate to lead us as USAPA president. Doug is a hard worker and his ethics are impeccable. I believe he would be best able to transcend the divisiveness that confronts us. He's not into the political BS that went on during the ALPA days. He tells it like it is, and that's why the weak-sister MEC connived to remove him from the NC a few years back (a Ray-Belz parting shot before his retirement.)

I would be curious to hear from westies that have worked with Doug on the JNC how they feel about the possibility of his presidency.

Disclaimer- I am only casually acquainted with Doug Mowery having met/spoken with him about a dozen times in my entire career. But I have watched carefully as Doug kept his head on while all those about him were running around like decapitated chickens. Doug is our Obama, IMHO.