Tim Nelson
Veteran
I wish you guys the best. But don't burn any daylight talking to Weesle. He is a TWU ramper but his handlers are IAM.
What the deal AMP
- Thread starter paul1
- Start date
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Man you need a serious education. You don't know "Nutt'in". BTW, it's back to square one anyways in September if section 6 is triggered. The company will just start the process all over again. It has advised your handlers of that, according to fly, so I don't think any of us are looking at a JCBA before 3-5 years from September. But you already know that. Just scram, you are in over your head on legal stuff.
AMP: +1
Weesel/Sito/Lehive: -1
1AA
Veteran
He was a strong AMFA supporter. Now he placed himself in a sworn to oath position with the TWU. Nothing wrong with that. I actually give credit and respect to the guys on the local level who step up and try to do what they can for the membership.
I dealt with guys who were union officers and respected my choice in union representation. I respected them for stepping up. It's a thankless job. Now to get back on to Russ, he is pushing to stop the card drive and the only reason I see is he has a stake in the union. My guess is moving up the union stairs to a International position. He feels threatened for personal gain. That's the problem. People will react when they are pushed for personal reasons. Let it go. People will slowly come around.
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
Parker offered M&R 7 weeks VC to match UA AMTs , Sito said everyone must get it or no one will.
The Pilots current union represented no one when they executed their card drive in 9 days in 1963 during contract negotiations.
The Profits of gloom among them were many, they were wrong.
The AMP Constitution closely resembles the Pilots.
We’ve waited long enough.
Not sure what you are talking about, but, I have had driver on ignore since his last explosion out of control happened. The second time will remain. Last time he started to come back civil then he went off the deep end again, so I see nothing he post unless someone drives me there thru their post/responses. I figured it was for the best.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,195
- 5,343
Oh stop. No one pays attention to the ignore feature. You claimed the same thing about me but when I poked you hard enough you went off on an insane rant where your head almost blew up.
BTW your vote over there is going to pass yes by 95%. Sorry.
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
I apologized if he thinks I am going off the deep end because I am not crazy about AMFA, then I am sorry he feels that way.
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
It should pass, I don't know how much. It's really hard for someone to turn down 50 k or more, because you didn't get 3%. If you read SWampy latest post on the SWA page he says he is on the fence. The Facebook pages you got guys trying to scare guys for a no vote. Like I said not going to fight . This Forum you don't know who people are, so they can say they are going to vote No, then vote Yes.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,195
- 5,343
WOW after all the names him and others called you, swampy says this now?????
“I still am on the fence as far as which way I will vote. I am waiting for final decision to be made after all the RS's are done from both union and co. Once I have all my info I will vote accordingly as I se fit for me, my family and our futures.”
Bet you 50 Bucks you never get that apology?
B737 driver
Veteran
- Jul 6, 2017
- 3,381
- 209
Well well, we have a live one here. A newb troll with just enough information to step on his dick. AMP guys? do you mean just about everybody on the property that's in our class and craft? BTW, there is a constitution, there is by-laws, and they will soon represent AA's M&R. Your concern about money going to the international is funny - since AMPs International isn't in the AFL-CIO - the money doesn't go wasted on typical unrelated endeavors - that have nothing to do with advancing our cause!
Once negotiations start, if the company wants to waste our time by starting over - there is total transparency during negotiations. The membership finds out just exactly what the hold up is, and acts accordingly to motivate the company as needed. Unlike the way it is now with vague excuses with no details.
There really never is a good time to change unions is there? Was it a good time when we had the Association foisted upon us with the broken promise of a vote?
The LUS guys hate the IAM as much as the LAA guys hate the TWU.
Evidently you are the one who lacks information. I said there was not a finalized constitution and after my post revision 2 has been released, revised by 5 guys in TULE that know what's best for us all. I'm sure revision 3 and 4 will be out soon. I have ask for the bylaws and been told "they will be written by the board of directors" and they don't exist yet. The TWU sends 70% of dues to the local level and 30% to the International so the fact AMP leaders ( who ever they are ) think Locals can represent the members on 25% are misguided. And don't ask about legal representation because they say they don't need that yet! As for LUS guys go to CLT and check the card count. This deal goes through it will be five years for a new deal but that's ok, I've got great healthcare.
WeAAsles
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2007
- 23,195
- 5,343
Well the Constitution is down once again while they update it.
http://www.ampnational.org/2018/07/18/who-is-amp-the-beginning/
And I hope they’re really not telling people that they don’t have any Legal advice on how to do this? I “REALLY” seriously am not trying to discourage but this is not something that 5 smart guys are going to be able to put together all by themselves.
This is also going to be very expensive.
https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/bonding.htm#b
It’s not like it’s never been done before.
A little history lesson:
Authorization to Act cards were sent out on April 12, 1963. The cards returned initially showed 84% of our pilots desired APA. The numbers climbed quickly and reached into the high nineties. By May 3, there were 1,285 of our members in bad standing or expelled from ALPA. On April 24, an application was filed with the NMB for recognition as the collective bargaining agent of the pilots on AAL.
On April 26, five of us were expelled from ALPA; Nick O'Connell, J. R. Lyons, Paul G. Atkins, Joe Garvey, and Bob Guba. We had continued to negotiate with the Company. This was against the orders of the Executive Committee, backed up by the Executive Board. It violated their policy.
After the March meeting the MEC was now a temporary Board of Directors of APA. The engineers would have no part of a joint agreement. We went back to negotiations to secure the benefits previously agreed to, for the pilots alone. All references to flight engineer were deleted. The engineers went back to their own negotiations.
Marty Seham, a young New York lawyer fresh out of Harvard, was hired to represent our legal needs. He was taking a chance with us as we had very little money to pay him at the time. It proved to be a very fortunate relationship. He has been protecting and advising us to this day. Ralph Harkenrider was hired by us, since he had been fired from ALPA over our situation. He was of invaluable assistance with all the administrative tasks we would be facing. A Board of Directors meeting on June 4 and 5, approved John Reddington's proposal for Loss of License insurance with Mass Casualty. Jim Quinlivan provided the other insurances. They still provide these valuable insurance services and benefits for APA's pilots and retirees.
There was a request by ALPA that the NMB defer passing on the certification application of APA until after a decision by the Court. On May 24, the NMB denied their request. On June 12, the NMB reported that of the 1,571 pilots eligible to vote, APA had authorization from 1,334. The NMB ordered an election. ALPA took injunctive action against the NMB. It was denied and lifted by court action on September 16.
Our By-Laws were adopted, pending ratification by all pilots on AAL, during our Board meeting on October 22 through 25, 1963, in San Francisco. The proposed By-Laws were put together in Joe Gumber's bar, The Swinging Door, by Bob Hoyt and Chick Luna among others. George Hof wrote the Preamble. They were ratified by the membership on November 26 and became official.
Although the official certification would not be given APA until November 13, 1963, American Airlines recognized APA as the collective bargaining representative for all AAL pilots and copilots on July 9, 1963 by signing our contract. We had accomplished the first hourly reduction, with no reduction in pay, since 1934. The 75 hours would be phased in on the jets first. Later we would include all equipment. There was a dues check-off provision included in our contract which would alleviate our financial bind and stop the temporary assessment setup. Our Retirement Plan was made completely non-contributory with a 10% "B" plan.
The Negotiating Committee had an "opportunity" when the Company placed the BAC 111 in service in late 1963. The Company wanted to fly it with a two-man crew. By mutual consent, the contract was opened early for this purpose as well as bringing our Electra and piston pay up a bit. An agreement was signed unanimously on November 19, Nick's birthday, which brought pay on all equipment to the highest in the industry. It was estimated to cost the Company in excess of 4% increase in payroll.
A Board of Directors meeting in Phoenix, February 18, 19 and 20, 1964, set up various committees and named nominees for the election of National Officers. The elections by the entire membership were verified by the Honest Ballot Association and the first elected National Officers were Nicholas J. O'Connell, President; J. Richard Lyons, Vice President; and Paul G. Atkins, Secretary-Treasurer. On June 1, APA moved into its new home office in the Chrysler Building in New York City.
Negotiations had been going on for some time during late 1963 and most of 1964 in an effort to complete the full understanding which would settle once and for all the Crew Complement question on American Airlines. We had told the court we did not want the flight engineers in our union unless it be of their own free will.
The eventual agreement (known as the "Tripartite"), exactly as written in the Supplemental "C" of the current agreement, was signed by all three parties on December 11, 1964. This peaceful settlement after years of public hearings, strikes, threats of strikes, and acrimony on other airlines was a tribute to all concerned including American Airlines and the NMB. It was the first permanent settlement in the industry. Basically, the flight engineer pay is a fixed percentage of copilot pay; they accept the same rules and working conditions as we may negotiate for our pilots and pay a service fee. There is a no strike clause for the flight engineer. All future hires are pilots on the pilots seniority list and are represented by APA. The engineers did not want to join the pilots retirement plan, so they negotiated that feature by themselves and otherwise just conformed their contract with ours. As part of this settlement, the American pilots have agreed to respect the independence of the flight engineers and their Association. This arrangement has worked well for 25 years, with no problems.
During the many negotiating sessions held to accomplish the Tripartite agreement, we negotiated several additional benefits in the working condition area, i.e., the Substitution of Equipment protection. We obtained an additional 1% of a pilot's gross earnings to be put in the pilots "B" fund for a total of 11%, July 1, 1965. A nice little "kicker" just before the amendable date of July 8, 1965.
The next three contracts put us well ahead of the industry in all departments while we doubled our pilots numbers. Basically, the same team of Negotiators were there from the fifties. It has been 30 years since the last strike on American Airlines. The "prophets of gloom" were wrong.
Class dismissed.
A little history lesson:
Authorization to Act cards were sent out on April 12, 1963. The cards returned initially showed 84% of our pilots desired APA. The numbers climbed quickly and reached into the high nineties. By May 3, there were 1,285 of our members in bad standing or expelled from ALPA. On April 24, an application was filed with the NMB for recognition as the collective bargaining agent of the pilots on AAL.
On April 26, five of us were expelled from ALPA; Nick O'Connell, J. R. Lyons, Paul G. Atkins, Joe Garvey, and Bob Guba. We had continued to negotiate with the Company. This was against the orders of the Executive Committee, backed up by the Executive Board. It violated their policy.
After the March meeting the MEC was now a temporary Board of Directors of APA. The engineers would have no part of a joint agreement. We went back to negotiations to secure the benefits previously agreed to, for the pilots alone. All references to flight engineer were deleted. The engineers went back to their own negotiations.
Marty Seham, a young New York lawyer fresh out of Harvard, was hired to represent our legal needs. He was taking a chance with us as we had very little money to pay him at the time. It proved to be a very fortunate relationship. He has been protecting and advising us to this day. Ralph Harkenrider was hired by us, since he had been fired from ALPA over our situation. He was of invaluable assistance with all the administrative tasks we would be facing. A Board of Directors meeting on June 4 and 5, approved John Reddington's proposal for Loss of License insurance with Mass Casualty. Jim Quinlivan provided the other insurances. They still provide these valuable insurance services and benefits for APA's pilots and retirees.
There was a request by ALPA that the NMB defer passing on the certification application of APA until after a decision by the Court. On May 24, the NMB denied their request. On June 12, the NMB reported that of the 1,571 pilots eligible to vote, APA had authorization from 1,334. The NMB ordered an election. ALPA took injunctive action against the NMB. It was denied and lifted by court action on September 16.
Our By-Laws were adopted, pending ratification by all pilots on AAL, during our Board meeting on October 22 through 25, 1963, in San Francisco. The proposed By-Laws were put together in Joe Gumber's bar, The Swinging Door, by Bob Hoyt and Chick Luna among others. George Hof wrote the Preamble. They were ratified by the membership on November 26 and became official.
Although the official certification would not be given APA until November 13, 1963, American Airlines recognized APA as the collective bargaining representative for all AAL pilots and copilots on July 9, 1963 by signing our contract. We had accomplished the first hourly reduction, with no reduction in pay, since 1934. The 75 hours would be phased in on the jets first. Later we would include all equipment. There was a dues check-off provision included in our contract which would alleviate our financial bind and stop the temporary assessment setup. Our Retirement Plan was made completely non-contributory with a 10% "B" plan.
The Negotiating Committee had an "opportunity" when the Company placed the BAC 111 in service in late 1963. The Company wanted to fly it with a two-man crew. By mutual consent, the contract was opened early for this purpose as well as bringing our Electra and piston pay up a bit. An agreement was signed unanimously on November 19, Nick's birthday, which brought pay on all equipment to the highest in the industry. It was estimated to cost the Company in excess of 4% increase in payroll.
A Board of Directors meeting in Phoenix, February 18, 19 and 20, 1964, set up various committees and named nominees for the election of National Officers. The elections by the entire membership were verified by the Honest Ballot Association and the first elected National Officers were Nicholas J. O'Connell, President; J. Richard Lyons, Vice President; and Paul G. Atkins, Secretary-Treasurer. On June 1, APA moved into its new home office in the Chrysler Building in New York City.
Negotiations had been going on for some time during late 1963 and most of 1964 in an effort to complete the full understanding which would settle once and for all the Crew Complement question on American Airlines. We had told the court we did not want the flight engineers in our union unless it be of their own free will.
The eventual agreement (known as the "Tripartite"), exactly as written in the Supplemental "C" of the current agreement, was signed by all three parties on December 11, 1964. This peaceful settlement after years of public hearings, strikes, threats of strikes, and acrimony on other airlines was a tribute to all concerned including American Airlines and the NMB. It was the first permanent settlement in the industry. Basically, the flight engineer pay is a fixed percentage of copilot pay; they accept the same rules and working conditions as we may negotiate for our pilots and pay a service fee. There is a no strike clause for the flight engineer. All future hires are pilots on the pilots seniority list and are represented by APA. The engineers did not want to join the pilots retirement plan, so they negotiated that feature by themselves and otherwise just conformed their contract with ours. As part of this settlement, the American pilots have agreed to respect the independence of the flight engineers and their Association. This arrangement has worked well for 25 years, with no problems.
During the many negotiating sessions held to accomplish the Tripartite agreement, we negotiated several additional benefits in the working condition area, i.e., the Substitution of Equipment protection. We obtained an additional 1% of a pilot's gross earnings to be put in the pilots "B" fund for a total of 11%, July 1, 1965. A nice little "kicker" just before the amendable date of July 8, 1965.
The next three contracts put us well ahead of the industry in all departments while we doubled our pilots numbers. Basically, the same team of Negotiators were there from the fifties. It has been 30 years since the last strike on American Airlines. The "prophets of gloom" were wrong.
Class dismissed.
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