What's In Store For The Future?

[Checking it Out]

It seems everywhere you turn work is outsourced to third party maintenance and if it's not the Courts it's the Arbitrator ruling in favor of the Companies. With outsourcing in the airlines approaching 60% it makes me wonder if we will be around working in the next 5 years?

To date only a few airlines retain maintenance in-house. With NW, United and others signing big contracts to do outside Maintenance and Companies starting up to work at the Airports to service the Aircraft overnight! It seems they have now found another way to eliminate employees. With the loss in the courts at USAIR and now the announcement of the arbitrator ruling in favor of NW it seems these two have now set the stage for a complete outsourcing of all work.

A lot of new technology is emerging that builds in wear factor and censors to tell when an item needs to be worked or replace. This will eliminate the need for employees. Will we be looking at checking the tires, filling up the Tank and washing the windshield in the near future?

My Question is: What do you think of the future of Maintenance in Aviation?

 

[Buck]

As long as the TWU condones the practice of "outsourcing in house" the future of Aviation Maintenance will be one of lowering wages and benefits. It's a "win win" situation for the company and the company union know as the TWU, however the worker will be the victim. You can spout all day long about jobs saved, but if I use your theory, I can save a lot more jobs than the TWU ever thought about.

Just remove the total benefit package and pay minimum wage, TWU supporters will flock to these conditions, Industrial Unionism will flourish. The TWU could even be the author of full employment in our lifetimes. I wonder why we have not agreed to your theories sooner?

 

[Bob Owens]

It seems everywhere you turn work is outsourced to third party maintenance and if it's not the Courts it's the Arbitrator ruling in favor of the Companies. With outsourcing in the airlines approaching 60% it makes me wonder if we will be around working in the next 5 years?

To date only a few airlines retain maintenance in-house. With NW, United and others signing big contracts to do outside Maintenance and Companies starting up to work at the Airports to service the Aircraft overnight! It seems they have now found another way to eliminate employees. With the loss in the courts at USAIR and now the announcement of the arbitrator ruling in favor of NW it seems these two have now set the stage for a complete outsourcing of all work.

A lot of new technology is emerging that builds in wear factor and censors to tell when an item needs to be worked or replace. This will eliminate the need for employees. Will we be looking at checking the tires, filling up the Tank and washing the windshield in the near future?

My Question is: What do you think of the future of Maintenance in Aviation?

If we stay with the TWU? The future is clear, continued decline. You must remember that under the TWU we are still considered to be well off. The average TWU member only makes $15/hr. Reove us, at $30/hr and it drops to around $10/hr. So as far as the TWU is concerned there is still a lot more downward movement left for us. After all we are an industrial union that believes that an aircraft mechanic is worth the same as a school bus driver in Alabama right? How could the TWU ask those members making $7/hr to support our fight to get $40/hr? They cant. So with the TWU we will never see them take a stand and fight for us. They will not put a major effort towards fighting outsourcing or raising wages. Over the last twenty years of concessions they never have and they never will.


With AMFA we will have the opportunity to join together with other mechanics, pool our resources and fight agaist outsourcing through lobbying, PR campaigns and job actions. Things that the TWU has, and will never do.

How did the TWU, though the AFL-CIO help the workers at USAIR? I say lets all have a one day political walkout protesting the fact that the courts have continued to show extreme bias against airline workers. Well why not? Because all the top guys making their $200,000/year dont have the balls to do it and they dont have to face their own members. So they sit back and make excuses as they collect their dues and we get screwed.

 

[Checking it Out]

From what I’m reading from Bob and Buck they are advocating layoffs and continued outsourcing at the airlines? They are preaching, but,apparently they don't understand! The association they claim to support is doing none of the items they listed. Makes you wonder?

I have asked a question about the Industry in General and they immediately jump on us vs. them. I wonder if they really understand the consequences of what they are advocating?


I see a trend coming that the airlines are moving away from Maintenance and want only to be involved in moving people. How will this impact us in general, the auto industry is going through this cycle and the Trucking Industry went thru this years ago. Sears, Montgomery Wards, K-mart have seen their market share shrink as Wal-Mart increases in size. Is our ultimate path to have Lufthansa take over as the premier maintenance centers of the world? It's apparent that United and NW think so. Is the slogan going to be Germany here we come! or at NW it's going to be Singapore here we come? Makes you wonder?

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

All Mechanics under one umbrella for starters. You know, strength in numbers. I don't believe minimum wage mechanics is the answer to keeping our work. It's going to take a strong collective effort by all the mechanics in the U.S. to change the direction our profession is heading. Unions like the twu don't help matters when they continuously give up concessions. " AA mechanics work for this much, we have to do the same to be competitive". Thats where the battle lies. The twu is no better than the 3rd party vendors our work goes to. If it wasn't so, we wouldn't be on the eve of our filing.
Here's to the twu......
Where contract language and scope is not believed in........
Cheers.........

 

[Buck]

Consequences? The consequences are the SRP/OSM that the company has achieved through the concessionary agreements of the TWU. The consequences of the last twenty years of concessionary agreements advocated by the TWU has made TUL, if not AFW and maybe now MCI, third party maintenance facilities.

CIO claims that the actions of AMFA have been the downfall of our industry.

Why has AMFA taken eight different memberships from the industrial unionists. Why are the workers leaving the industrial unions? CIO expects AMFA to walk in the door and correct twenty plus years of concessions agreed to by the industrial unions.

The membership of the TWU is finally realizing that the industrial unions hold no concern for the mechanic craft and class. Not only does CIO and his kind hold no respect for the profession, they could care less about the solidarity they claim.
An injustice for one is an injustice all, yet there is and was the B-scale through the OSM classifications. CIO is worried about the actions of AMFA at NWA, yet he holds no concern for the unionism he preaches at the very airline he represents. Yes the "airline" he represents, because the only solidarity the TWU has shown is with the company.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

From what I’m reading from Bob and Buck they are advocating layoffs and continued outsourcing at the airlines? They are preaching, but,apparently they don't understand! The association they claim to support is doing none of the items they listed. Makes you wonder?

I have asked a question about the Industry in General and they immediately jump on us vs. them. I wonder if they really understand the consequences of what they are advocating?


I see a trend coming that the airlines are moving away from Maintenance and want only to be involved in moving people. How will this impact us in general, the auto industry is going through this cycle and the Trucking Industry went thru this years ago. Sears, Montgomery Wards, K-mart have seen their market share shrink as Wal-Mart increases in size. Is our ultimate path to have Lufthansa take over as the premier maintenance centers of the world? It's apparent that United and NW think so. Is the slogan going to be Germany here we come! or at NW it's going to be Singapore here we come? Makes you wonder?

cio, you are beyond being a cowardly poster. Your thought process is beyond reason. Outsourcing began with the iam, twu and ibt. PERIOD! AMFA is against outsourcing. Where were you at AMFA's Part 145 Rally in Washington? A easy question to answer. Where were you? Where was the iam, ibt, twu? No where to be seen.
You ask a question about the industry and you are answered. Airlines want to get away from maintenance only because industrial unions allow them to. Like Bob says, where are the bus drivers screaming to prevent this from happening? Better yet, where is sonny and jim?

You know at least Bob and Buck state their names and locations. That is something foreign to you and Seguro and Drippy.

 

[Your_Ex-Wife]

Ken..send your support ..the kids are hungry.

AMFA is against outsourcing? *fights gag reflex* Ken, please consider remarrying me, with a set like you must possess I want ya man. AMFA is the leader of outsourcing next to Sprint. AMFA has allowed a 38% ungrievable limit to outsourcing at NWA. AMFA also lost the FM1 there, WITH THEIR OUTSOURCING TO SINGAPORE. Yet you have the audacity to claim AMFA is against outsourcing. AMFA has proven where it's loyalties lie. Those left to turn wrenches after AMFA has administered it's conract technique are the winners, both of them.

Even after AMFA has proven to be the loser they are you follow. Ken, no wonder I divorced you, you loser.

 

[Hackman]

Ken..send your support ..the kids are hungry.

AMFA is against outsourcing? *fights gag reflex* Ken, please consider remarrying me, with a set like you must possess I want ya man. AMFA is the leader of outsourcing next to Sprint. AMFA has allowed a 38% ungrievable limit to outsourcing at NWA. AMFA also lost the FM1 there, WITH THEIR OUTSOURCING TO SINGAPORE. Yet you have the audacity to claim AMFA is against outsourcing. AMFA has proven where it's loyalties lie. Those left to turn wrenches after AMFA has administered it's conract technique are the winners, both of them.

Even after AMFA has proven to be the loser they are you follow. Ken, no wonder I divorced you, you loser.

DEAR MONKEY BUTT,

Listen closely, OUTSOURCING TO SINGAPORE WAS FIRST ALLOWED BY THE iam AT NWA, BEFORE AMFA KICKED THE iam OUT!!!!!!!!! OUTSOURCING AT UAL WAS AGREED TO 100% BY THE iam...... AGAIN..............BEFORE AMFA BOOTED THEM OFF THE PROPERTY!!!!!!!!


I know its hard for a twu monkey on the short bus, but Earl, try to lie better next time. :unsure: :blink: :unsure: :blink:

 

[Birdman]

Hey Ken, is that Your Ex-Wife saying yes to concessions? You must have made out like a bandit in divorce court.

 

[Boomer]

CIO,

Will you tell all of us HOW LOW WILL THE TWU GO?

No one knows the answer?

How many jobs will be "lost" when nobody can afford to take them?

Will the AFL-CIO and the TWU then ask for more "illegal aliens" to be allowed to accept the jobs Americans will not take?

Or will Jim Little get back into the ARAC and ask for a reintroduction of FAR66 so that the shade tree mechanics can become "Specialists"?

 

[Checking it Out]

I believe that the language inserted in the NW contract in exchange for higher wages, the Alaska unlimited outsourcing rights, the amfa wantabes preaching to the AMT's at United to turn down the Contract before BK and the lack of support from amfa to help legislative issues has allowed the ever evolving climate within the Airline Maintenance industry to change and speed-up dramatically. The lack of oversight on amfa's ability to understand how to negotiate or arbitrate has caused extensive damage to our profession.

I also believe the mass volume of layoffs of experience AMT's has given the 3rd party Maintenance the cheap man power to start up. The one difference the TWU has more than amfa can only dream of is an understanding of the consequences of certain actions. Had amfa had this ability than we would not be discussing this issue.

Buck talks about 20 years, Well amfa has been around for over 42 years and still lacks any understanding. But they have a great talk and followers who follow blindly. I wonder if they hit the street if they would have a better understanding of this? Buck, Bob, Dave and the 18 year seniority guys don't care about the 6 or even the 10 year seniority Brothers. Why is this? It's beyond me! Facts and the track record is their all you have to do is look to see the truth!


Here I go, I was hoping to refrain from us vs. them on this thread.

Anyway the Industry is changing and I hope that the members with common sense will understand the direction they are heading may not be in the best interest of the members as a whole. The Unions of the pilots were great at one time, But they are fealing the pressure of third party suppliers and low cost carriers and are forced to rethink the positions they once held. The prestige of the 60's are gone, now we are people movers from point A to point B. For the lowest cost possible. Just like Panam. Adapt or die a slow death?

 

[Buck]

So you care about the "6 or even 10 year seniority" brothers, so much that you condone the SRP / OSM classification? State again how it is a good starting place for the newly hired mechanic......

The prestige of the 60's are gone, now we are people movers from point A to point B. For the lowest cost possible.

See you make my point. You want us to adapt to your vision of the lowest cost possible. Who are you to determine what is possible for the membership? You sound just like the company.

 

[UAL_TECH]

FYI,


http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040203/airlines_us...sairways_1.html


UT

 

[Bob Owens]

From what I’m reading from Bob and Buck they are advocating layoffs and continued outsourcing at the airlines? They are preaching, but,apparently they don't understand! The association they claim to support is doing none of the items they listed. Makes you wonder?

I have asked a question about the Industry in General and they immediately jump on us vs. them. I wonder if they really understand the consequences of what they are advocating?


I see a trend coming that the airlines are moving away from Maintenance and want only to be involved in moving people. How will this impact us in general, the auto industry is going through this cycle and the Trucking Industry went thru this years ago. Sears, Montgomery Wards, K-mart have seen their market share shrink as Wal-Mart increases in size. Is our ultimate path to have Lufthansa take over as the premier maintenance centers of the world? It's apparent that United and NW think so. Is the slogan going to be Germany here we come! or at NW it's going to be Singapore here we come? Makes you wonder?

CIO;

As usual, you make unsubstantiated claims. Where have I advocated Layoffs and outsourcing? The fact is that I have not. Its just that in your simple limited brain that you can not fathom the idea that we could say no to the company. No we will not take concessions and no you will not ship that work out, its ours, its part of the whole package. If you try and piecemeal it out we will strike.

AMFA did not raise the bar from $25 to $35 per hour? Who did " The TWU? Hardly.The fact is that mechanics salaries (as well as most other TWU represented workers) were lagging inflation over the course of several contracts, it was only after AMFA set the standard at NWA that other unions were forced to match AMFAs performance. Other TWU represented workers at AA did not have an organization like AMFA out there so despite the fact that we are in an Industrial Union mechanics walked away with much more than any other TWU represented work group at AA in 2001.

So now you are worried about Germany taking our jobs. Funny thing is you dont see the Germans working for TWU type wages and benifits. You wont find any German workers with only one week of vacation. The fact is that over in Germany the unions still fight whereas unions like our TWU have become businesses and have adopted the WalMart philosophy. They give companys the lowest prices every day, however they dont advocate the work for less ideology for themselves as we can see from Randy McDonalds $200,000/yr.