"WT", you've not been telling the true story

[Flufdriver]

"WT"..FYI, when you come out of hiding...

Although both Northwest and Delta filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2005, Northwest is further along in its reorganization than Delta is. "They are 90% done," said Boyd. "They are just wrapping up the details."

Added Levine: "Delta is making progress, but is behind Northwest." Still, both carriers expect to emerge from bankruptcy in the first half of 2007.

What other things are you wrong about?? How great DAL management is and how they are stirring them out of BK? This is the same "Team" that tanked them!!

 

[DLFlyer31]

This is the same "Team" that tanked them!!

The team that tanked DL was Leo Mullion, Fred Reid, Michelle Burns and Vicki Escarra. None of them currently work for DL...nor have they for quite some time.

 

[UnitedChicago]

I'd like to add to the list of WT distortions:

From his post "UA Shows Strong Improvement":

UA posted industry average results in multiple categories which is what I've wanted them to do.

Now United Looks Smart

By Ted Reed
TheStreet.com Staff Reporter
11/6/2006 1:57 PM EST

The financial results reported in the third quarter upended the airline industry's recent hierarchy.
Low-cost industry darlings counted their losses, while long-bankrupt, long-doubted United Airlines came out on top.

Despite the belief by some that its three years in bankruptcy court were too long, too expensive and too unproductive, and even with continuing questions about its long-term strategy, UAL (UAUA - commentary - Cramer's Take), the parent of United, earned $190 million in the quarter, the most of any carrier that's no longer under court protection. It also produced better margins than its legacy peers.

 

[WorldTraveler]

absolute dollar amounts mean nothing when comparing companies of different sizes. That's why margins and other percentage based comparisons are used. On that basis, UA was middle of the pack for the most recent quarter and was ahead of AA and DL but still well behind other carriers. Also, note how they conveniently exclude BK companies since NW actually did about twice as good as UA on a margin basis.

And speaking of NW, you'll recall NW's filing was actually a surprise. No one expected they would be filing; the reason became clear when it was seen that NW could not obtain debtor in possession financing so had to file to stop the bleeding.

NW's bankruptcy was simpler because they did not terminate any pension plans and have to deal with the PBGC. NW also played much harder with its regional carriers and its employees - most categories of DL's employees still make more than NW, UA, and US employees.

Finally, NW has still filed a plan of reorg so they are not really any further along than DL. DL has said it will file a POR by mid-Dec which is just 2 weeks away. That means DL has to have a lot of deals ready to be signed if they are going to file a POR in two weeks.

And if really won't bother me a whole lot if NW does emerge sooner than DL. The comparison which I will continue to make is between DL and UA. On that basis, UA will be left in the dust time and time again.

One tiny little PS. I have an inkling that DL is about ready to start going after some of UA's unused route authorities and slots again.

 

[UnitedChicago]

absolute dollar amounts mean nothing when comparing companies of different sizes. That's why margins and other percentage based comparisons are used. On that basis, UA was middle of the pack for the most recent quarter and was ahead of AA and DL but still well behind other carriers.

Oh okay...so now when you make statements, should we assume you mean the entire airline sector inclusive of low-cost-carriers and legacies? Or is it at your discretion to make UA look bad and DL look good? Little bit of the whole group here, little bit of legacy there, and a dash of LCC there.

NW's bankruptcy was simpler because they did not terminate any pension plans and have to deal with the PBGC. NW also played much harder with its regional carriers and its employees - most categories of DL's employees still make more than NW, UA, and US employees

Oh I see - you really meant when you've made the sweaping statements about how seamlessly and effortlessly DL is moving through DL that you're only comparing to UA. Well that's a pretty narrow view now isn't it? I mean someone of your expertise and depth beyond a press release really shouldn't be so narrow or obsessed with but one airline in a large sector.

The comparison which I will continue to make is between DL and UA. On that basis, UA will be left in the dust time and time again.

Yes - they will be left in the dust - but this isn't an apples to apples comparison. It's well documented that I'm not a fan of current UA management and after their first few months in BK, I was very critical of what the plan or lack there of was.

However, DL's and NW's time in CH11 is very very different than UA's. The travel economy is vastly improved, fares are higher, and UA set many a precedent during their 3 years. Including writing the book on pension termination, providing a framework (good or bad) on a/c restructuring, etc.

 

[700UW]

I believe US wrote the book on pension termination and a/c restructuring.

We filed chapter 11 before you, terminated the pilots pension in bankruptcy one, and the rest in bankruptcy two.

We are up on you, two bankruptcies to one!

 

[DLFlyGirl]

"WT"..FYI, when you come out of hiding...

Although both Northwest and Delta filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2005, Northwest is further along in its reorganization than Delta is. "They are 90% done," said Boyd. "They are just wrapping up the details."

Added Levine: "Delta is making progress, but is behind Northwest." Still, both carriers expect to emerge from bankruptcy in the first half of 2007.

What other things are you wrong about?? How great DAL management is and how they are stirring them out of BK? This is the same "Team" that tanked them!!

I don't know about more quickly then any other airline but the media has said that our restructioning plan is better then other airline, from the way we've restructed the route system and reallocated the widebody aircraft to fly all the new internationa; routes, to the inflight entertainment and more. I wish I could find a link but I can't right now.

Here are some good articles for you to catch up.

http://www.freesun.be/freesun_news/17_nove...2006/delta.html

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4721875

 

[Flufdriver]

I don't know about more quickly then any other airline but the media has said that our restructioning plan is better then other airline, from the way we've restructed the route system and reallocated the widebody aircraft to fly all the new internationa; routes, to the inflight entertainment and more. I wish I could find a link but I can't right now.

Here are some good articles for you to catch up.

http://www.freesun.be/freesun_news/17_nove...2006/delta.html

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4721875

DLFlyGirl,

It only took DAL years to realize you don't fly 767-300 and 400's to FLL every hour. They were made for long haul. Took wonderful DAL management years and BK to finally put the right airplane on the correct route. DAH!! These guys are brilliant. "Hey, I have a great idea, Lets fly these big airplanes to far destinations rather then Fort Meyers, we probably can make a little money". You have to give this management team credit, they are sharp!!

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

We filed chapter 11 before you, terminated the pilots pension in bankruptcy one, and the rest in bankruptcy two.

We are up on you, two bankruptcies to one!

700 700 700 Dang those typos keep coming. There was 2 of them in this one.
We and We

 

[700UW]

700 700 700 Dang those typos keep coming. There was 2 of them in this one.

Ok, you are now stalking me and obsessed.

What does your post have to do with "WT", you've not been telling the true story?

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Ok, you are now stalking me and obsessed.

What does your post have to do with "WT", you've not been telling the true story?

700,700,700

And what does your post have to do with "WT", you've not been telling the true story?

You better stop or I am reporting you and I will report myself while I am at it.

 

[DLFlyGirl]

DLFlyGirl,

It only took DAL years to realize you don't fly 767-300 and 400's to FLL every hour. They were made for long haul. Took wonderful DAL management years and BK to finally put the right airplane on the correct route. DAH!! These guys are brilliant. "Hey, I have a great idea, Lets fly these big airplanes to far destinations rather then Fort Meyers, we probably can make a little money". You have to give this management team credit, they are sharp!!

Yes, it did take them years. If your are familiar with the history of the industry you will recall that Eastern Airlines and Delta shared many of the same routes, both having hubs in ATL. After Eastern when out Delta reaped the benefits. They allocated the widebody aircraft on many routes and made record profits. Times changed and a disasterous, negligent, incompetant management team came in and did nothing about making changes. Our current management realized the losses on these routes and took action. You can't blame this management team. If this merger goes through US and its employees will reap the benefits of what our current management team has been able to repair.

On a side note...I don't understand the hostiity on these boards. Obviously I just joined. Why are so many posts full of jabs? Surely its possible to express your opinions and engage in conversation without sounding like you want to start an argument??

 

[eolesen]

The media might love DL's "reorganization" but the financial markets and analysts aren't exactly thrilled. Sure, DL has moved a lot of capacity into JFK and international markets. But why didn't they unload a bunch of those widebodies instead, and reduce the size of the airline? Why don't they unload the lease on what is probably the most expensive real estate they have in the US (new terminal in BOS)? Why haven't they unloaded Comair?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

"Whoa..whoa" .

All this Animosity about whose bankruptcy is/was "better' than the next guy :unsure:

What I don't understand, is..."WHAT is a Bankruptcy" ?????




NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

This is exactly the type of stuff that Carty and Arpey managed to avoid at AA... As much as concessions suck, there wasn't any loss of control over the restructuring process, and there wasn't any threat of another airline stepping in uninvited.