-190 Pay Rates

[AAviator]

Will the -190 guys be on the same list? What are the rates for the rest of the contract?

This is ugly.

Dizel8 is dead wrong. JB set the bar for the -190. The MDA payrate is based on an upstart wholly owned subsidiary of a sinking ship known as USAirways. The MDA operation is limited to the 70 seats. It remains to be seen if MDA will actually work. 70 seats is the current "line in the sand" for commuter compensation packages. JB brings it up to 100.

I thought the -190 was ordered before MDA was established. Didn't DN say the total CASM of the -190 would be about $.01 more / casm than the 320? How would he know that if the rate wasn't set at that time?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Will the -190 guys be on the same list? What are the rates for the rest of the contract?

This is ugly.

Dizel8 is dead wrong. JB set the bar for the -190. The MDA payrate is based on an upstart wholly owned subsidiary of a sinking ship known as USAirways. The MDA operation is limited to the 70 seats. It remains to be seen if MDA will actually work. 70 seats is the current "line in the sand" for commuter compensation packages. JB brings it up to 100.

I thought the -190 was ordered before MDA was established. Didn't DN say the total CASM of the -190 would be about $.01 more / casm than the 320? How would he know that if the rate wasn't set at that time?

YES, JetBlue has ONE seniority list.

 

[Winglet]

Until management decides they want to change it.

 

[Whadayano]

A question. If you compare first and second year A-320 rates, and the E-190 rates, is the difference the same as the seat differential? Because that is what management said it would be, at the time of the order announcement--"around the same difference as the difference in seats." So that seems in line, and way above the numbers I hear for a starting 1st year pilot of an RJ.

 

[Flying Titan]

From ATW Daily News -

JetBlue achieves ultra-competitive pilot pay on Embraer 190s Dateline: Friday July 09, 2004

JetBlue Airways' 100-seat Embraer 190s, which begin arriving next year, "will offer better cockpit/seat economics" than larger Frontier Airlines A319s, AirTran 717s and Southwest Airlines 737s, according to JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker.

In a report released yesterday, Baker said that three-year seniority rates for JetBlue 190 captains will be $74 per hour, or $80 when adjusted for overtime. A 12-year captain on a JetBlue 190 will earn $96 including overtime, representing "a 33%" cost-per-seat advantage versus Southwest's 137-seat aircraft when adjusted for planned pilot pay increases at Southwest.
"Whereas airline pilots typically get paid more as aircraft size increases, JetBlue has established its 100-seat pay scale below that of certain 70-seat operators, an obvious competitive disadvantage for the Regional airline sector, at least initially," Baker stated.

Pay rates also will pressure regional jet operators. For example, a three-year captain on a 70-seat CRJ700 flying for Comair, a Delta Air Lines subsidiary, earns $74 per hour while captains on Horizon Air CRJ700s earn $75. According to Baker, American Airlines "would require a 757…to approach JetBlue's cockpit/seat economics" based on planned third-quarter 2005 AA pay rates.--Perry Flint

 

[7.5victim]

Wonder what the turnover will be when you tired if making Wendy's wages!

Let's see.... 1st year captain, 83 hours a month average. That's a little over $76000/year, before per diem. Problem for all you legacy flyboys who won't work for less than 6 figures is that there are plenty of other pilots out there actually working at Wendy's, and they know $76k/year is nothing to sneeze at....

 

[Bear96]

Let's see.... 1st year captain, 83 hours a month average. That's a little over $76000/year, before per diem. Problem for all you legacy flyboys who won't work for less than 6 figures is that there are plenty of other pilots out there actually working at Wendy's, and they know $76k/year is nothing to sneeze at....

Six figures last year... $96K yesterday at Mid Atlantic... $76K today at jB... $56K next year at whatever airline is next trying to be "competitive"... $36K a couple years after that...

Hmmm, see a trend?

When wages get down to approximately real Wendy's wages, will you have had enough?

Or as long as someone, somewhere out there is making a little less, will you be happy... <_<

 

[jj]

Its a shame when I see so many furloughed pilots getting their CDLs and driving a big rig just so they can start making 50 to 60 Gs a year to start. Nothing against truckers but the day when truck drivers are starting to make more than pilots this is nuts! :blink:

 

[mweiss]

When wages get down to approximately real Wendy's wages, will you have had enough?

They will keep dropping as long as there continues to be enough people who are so interested in flying airplanes that they'd do it for next to nothing.

 

[LaBradford22]

Its a shame when I see so many furloughed pilots getting their CDLs and driving a big rig just so they can start making 50 to 60 Gs a year to start. Nothing against truckers but the day when truck drivers are starting to make more than pilots this is nuts!

Why? Okay, flying a plane is harder than driving a truck. But let's face it. Truck drivers work all the time. A major airline pilot works anywhere from 10 to 15 days per month. I bet the pilot has better health and retirement benefits, too. Plus he gets things that the truck driver doesn't, like per diem, monthly guarantees, pay & credit guarantees, etc.

 

[Bear96]

They will keep dropping as long as there continues to be enough people who are so interested in flying airplanes that they'd do it for next to nothing.

Well, no kidding, but I am just wondering how low it has to go before some pilots will catch on that maybe it is not worth it anymore.

As long as people are willing to justify it by pointing to an example of someone who makes less than they do doing an unskilled job, I guess they still have a long way to go.

 

[mweiss]

It needs to be more than just some pilots. There's clearly a significant oversupply of pilots and FAs. This is the textbook example of a scenario that generates falling wages.

But, based on your posts, Bear, I suspect the equilibrium price is below the wage at which you're willing to work.

 

[luv2fly]

Why? Okay, flying a plane is harder than driving a truck. But let's face it. Truck drivers work all the time. A major airline pilot works anywhere from 10 to 15 days per month. I bet the pilot has better health and retirement benefits, too. Plus he gets things that the truck driver doesn't, like per diem, monthly guarantees, pay & credit guarantees, etc.

How long does it take to obtain a CDL and become a truck driver? How much does it cost? Do you have to have a college degree? Does it require years of training?
At some point the requirements for becoming a pilot will drop or people will just start choosing other career fields. The same thing is happening with some doctor specialties. You get what you pay for and the fact is we are becoming a "WalMart" type mentality nation.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I bet the pilot has better health and retirement benefits, too. Plus he gets things that the truck driver doesn't, like per diem, monthly guarantees, pay & credit guarantees, etc.

You lose that bet. UNION pilots get these things. JBLU pilots only get lower pay.

 

[LaBradford22]

You lose that bet. UNION pilots get these things. JBLU pilots only get lower pay.

Well, okay, so the B6 pilot doesn't have a defined benefit pension. But he does have extensive stock options, profit sharing (not insignificant - has paid ~10% per year), a 401k match, and pretty decent health benefits.

Oh yeah. The B6 pilot also has the job security that comes with working for a growing, thriving, profitable company.