500mil More?
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jimntx
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Borescope said:Isn't it the employees (Even though Jimbo isn't employed with UAL, or AA for that matter), who always know better than the management how to run an airline
[post="182405"][/post]
Well, I'm a furloughed AA employee who has his financial ducks in a row to the extent that I don't have to work while I'm furloughed. Frees up my time to post on here to your annoyance.
I'm also someone who has been on every continent except Antarctica both for business and pleasure. Had one long distance flight on UAL from Bangkok to SFO back in 1995. Taught me never to book a flight on UAL again.
And, I'm betting that I will get recalled to AA before UAL makes it out of bankruptcy.
jimntx
Veteran
Borescope said:Exactly Jimbo, the operative word was "employed"
[post="182453"][/post]
Let's see what adjective is attached to your name in 6 months to a year.
ok.....I give. Hey Capt, I can assure you, with no possibility of being wrong, that we have absolutely NO PROBLEM with F9...none, zero, zippo. We DO have problems with one particular poster getting off on the possibility of us being unemployed. I, for one, appologize to you if anything I've said has insulted you....it was never directed at you. Honestly!
As for the stinky, fishy guy......YOU get no sorry! 😛
As for the stinky, fishy guy......YOU get no sorry!
😛C54,
There's a descent chance we know each other and are pals. Forgive my condenscension on this board. This is the only place I can be that way. If I tried it at home, the wife would BS me so quick my head would spin. 😀 😉 . This is my issue with FRNT and the other LCC's
Firm to firm, the price elasticity of demand for airline tickets within the current range is VERY high, ie a SMALL change in price results in a HUGE change in demand. HOWEVER for the industry, I'm willing to bet it's VERY LOW. ie, if ALL the airlines raised fares by 10%, demand MAY go down by 1%. How does this involve FRNT and the other LCC's (excluding SWA). When the bigs attempted to cut supply to prop up revenue, this increased cost substantially for them. but it had to be done. Meanwhile, the "cartel busters" found that by irrationally adding capacity at obscene rates, their costs went down SHORT TERM. this further destabilized the industry, and was a trend that could not continue, and now the chickens are knocking on the door. but the damage they inflicted to the profession will likely be permanent. When LCC guys are willing to fly more hours due to losser work rules, there are less jobs. and the bonus is they now pay less. Now you'd say "but I came back to flying because I missed the view" Fine. I'm sure their are OB/GYN's that like the view too. but do they bid down the profession?
As to FRNT's cost. another little cash flow tidbit. DYN that FRNT's jet loans are 12 year terms with a 10 million or so balloon payment each? Yet the jets are likely depreciated over 20 or more years. What does this mean to the layman? It means that you can't just "breakeven". you can have a profit, but still have a cash flow crisis. that's why FRNT sold a jet at a loss and leased it back.
Mx. FRNT is so proud of the much lower MX cost of the new AB's. But I'll let you in on a little secret. Much of the savings is imagined. Prior to Jan 03, FRNT applied a reasonable mx cost in each accounting period based on expectations. this makes sence because from Q to Q you may be using the jets the same amount, but if an abnormally large number of jets were due an inspection in a given month, would it be fair to put all those costs in that period? Kind of like assigning the entire cost of new tires for you car to the monthly budget when you purchased them. doesn't pass the smell test with respect to "matching". But guess what, in Jan 03, FRNT decided to change the method to a "cash basis". ie, they put it on the balance sheet when they pay the bill. The result? Abnormally low costs in the short term (when you are trying to hoodwink the uninformed into loans and stock distributions), but will result in much higher costs later. So now yields are gong through the floor due to FRNT's over expansion while costs are on the verge of going up. Yep, FRNT doesn't mind paying Fish now, cause AB is footing the bill. That won't last. You might want to look at the credit card and FF miles accounting procedures also. I suggest you take a prozac before hand. Good luck. It will be a very "interesting" year, and if you're like me, we could both do without "interesting"
There's a descent chance we know each other and are pals. Forgive my condenscension on this board. This is the only place I can be that way. If I tried it at home, the wife would BS me so quick my head would spin. 😀 😉 . This is my issue with FRNT and the other LCC's
Firm to firm, the price elasticity of demand for airline tickets within the current range is VERY high, ie a SMALL change in price results in a HUGE change in demand. HOWEVER for the industry, I'm willing to bet it's VERY LOW. ie, if ALL the airlines raised fares by 10%, demand MAY go down by 1%. How does this involve FRNT and the other LCC's (excluding SWA). When the bigs attempted to cut supply to prop up revenue, this increased cost substantially for them. but it had to be done. Meanwhile, the "cartel busters" found that by irrationally adding capacity at obscene rates, their costs went down SHORT TERM. this further destabilized the industry, and was a trend that could not continue, and now the chickens are knocking on the door. but the damage they inflicted to the profession will likely be permanent. When LCC guys are willing to fly more hours due to losser work rules, there are less jobs. and the bonus is they now pay less. Now you'd say "but I came back to flying because I missed the view" Fine. I'm sure their are OB/GYN's that like the view too. but do they bid down the profession?
As to FRNT's cost. another little cash flow tidbit. DYN that FRNT's jet loans are 12 year terms with a 10 million or so balloon payment each? Yet the jets are likely depreciated over 20 or more years. What does this mean to the layman? It means that you can't just "breakeven". you can have a profit, but still have a cash flow crisis. that's why FRNT sold a jet at a loss and leased it back.
Mx. FRNT is so proud of the much lower MX cost of the new AB's. But I'll let you in on a little secret. Much of the savings is imagined. Prior to Jan 03, FRNT applied a reasonable mx cost in each accounting period based on expectations. this makes sence because from Q to Q you may be using the jets the same amount, but if an abnormally large number of jets were due an inspection in a given month, would it be fair to put all those costs in that period? Kind of like assigning the entire cost of new tires for you car to the monthly budget when you purchased them. doesn't pass the smell test with respect to "matching". But guess what, in Jan 03, FRNT decided to change the method to a "cash basis". ie, they put it on the balance sheet when they pay the bill. The result? Abnormally low costs in the short term (when you are trying to hoodwink the uninformed into loans and stock distributions), but will result in much higher costs later. So now yields are gong through the floor due to FRNT's over expansion while costs are on the verge of going up. Yep, FRNT doesn't mind paying Fish now, cause AB is footing the bill. That won't last. You might want to look at the credit card and FF miles accounting procedures also. I suggest you take a prozac before hand. Good luck. It will be a very "interesting" year, and if you're like me, we could both do without "interesting"
MCI transplant
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<_< jimntx-----We know a.a.'s position on this! That would make it so much easyer for anther Airline to come into STL! This is not the a.a, board! We also know your an layed off a.a. employee! So maybe someone here my not agree with your/a.a.'s assesment!!!!! :down:jimntx said:
jimntx
Veteran
MCI transplant said:
You misunderstand. I was very puzzled by the way AA dismantled the STL hub--particularly since one of the arguments for the STL hub was to take some pressure off ORD. However, I still say, if the traffic were there, someone would have increased flying to take up the slack left by the AA cutback. Didn't SWA cut back on their STL flights not long after AA started their cutback?
Oh, and considering the fact that I include the fact that I am a furloughed f/a in every single post does not make your statement about me being laid off anything other than an incisive grasp of the obvious. This is also not the PRIVATE UAL board. If you want a bb for UAL employees only, I strongly suggest you raise the funds, get you a programmer, and pay a web server to host it.
For those that think giving away 200 F/C tickets is wrong, might think about how much it costs to advertise on tv.
A lot of these mindless shows have a lot of people who watch them.
The tickets total amounts to 1,000,000 dollars which again cost Ual nothing and they get a few million in advertising.
I would much rather see them do that then spend real cash.
What does it cost for a business person to upgrade. a little cash and some free miles he earned.
No offence to the business people. I am sure you think Ual's doing the right thing.
Busdrvr said:
Relative to other LLCs, FRNT's maintenance costs are not that low. They are better than most legacy carriers, but FRNT outsources the least of any LLC.
FRNT's maintenance costs are captured in their DOT Form 41 stats where they do indeed record a "maintenance burden" which is the allocation of maintenance spend. The notable airline that does not allocate a maintenance burden in jetBlue which is due for a very large maintenance spike in a few years.
mrfish3726
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Yep, FRNT doesn't mind paying Fish now, cause AB is footing the bill. That won't last. You might want to look at the credit card and FF miles accounting procedures also. I suggest you take a Prozac before hand. Good luck. It will be a very "interesting" year, and if you're like me, we could both do without "interesting"
Where MRFISH is in the maintenance department, in house or contracted out he still has pretty good job security due to his position at F9. But, I seriously doubt that F9 will farm out maintenance, due to the inferior product that most of the third party facilities furnish the customer. Ask your own mechanics who have to face problems after problems with maintenance that was over looked or signed off as OK to continue by your OWN UAL managers just to conserve cash.
There is nothing more frustrating than to send a plane out for a C-CK or an HMV and ultimately in the end have to do a lot of the work all over again. Attached is one that cost the vendor some serious cash, but ultimately cost UAL 100's of 1000's of dollars in the end to. And again next time you see Ronnin, our UAL_TECH ask them what they encounter when they get a plane back from third party maintenance.
That's why F9 is smarter to keep it in house, and make sure that the work is done properly. UAL doesn't SAVE a DIME when they get a plane out of third party that has work that was half ass completed or not completed at all, just pencil whipped.
Bus/Seque,
Ultimately the fact still stands that UAL is in crisis mode! Sugar coat it all you want! Frontier isn't going anywhere Fish isn't going anywhere . We'll still be here 10 years from now celebrating that 20th year of operation. We'll still be Denver’s HOMETOWN airline, sponsoring every professional and college sports team that plays in Denver. The city of Denver will still feel proud that F9 is a big part of the Colorado community with sponsorships in all that happens in the Denver Metro area.
They won't be worrying if we'll pay our bills, leases, taxes, or offer more employment to the wonderful folks in Colorado. Rather than some they know as sneaky, conniving, demanding service from the city. But, un-able or un-willing to pay their bills, leases, taxes, and continue to lay off more of Colorado’s dedicated workers.
This will be my last post here; you guys are truly threatened and totally pathetic. REMEMBER, you still have to come up with 1.16Billion in savings according to Tilton. I see UAL soon to be in the death spiral right behind USAIR. GOOD LUCK!
Where MRFISH is in the maintenance department, in house or contracted out he still has pretty good job security due to his position at F9. But, I seriously doubt that F9 will farm out maintenance, due to the inferior product that most of the third party facilities furnish the customer. Ask your own mechanics who have to face problems after problems with maintenance that was over looked or signed off as OK to continue by your OWN UAL managers just to conserve cash.
There is nothing more frustrating than to send a plane out for a C-CK or an HMV and ultimately in the end have to do a lot of the work all over again. Attached is one that cost the vendor some serious cash, but ultimately cost UAL 100's of 1000's of dollars in the end to. And again next time you see Ronnin, our UAL_TECH ask them what they encounter when they get a plane back from third party maintenance.
That's why F9 is smarter to keep it in house, and make sure that the work is done properly. UAL doesn't SAVE a DIME when they get a plane out of third party that has work that was half ass completed or not completed at all, just pencil whipped.
Bus/Seque,
Ultimately the fact still stands that UAL is in crisis mode! Sugar coat it all you want! Frontier isn't going anywhere
Fish isn't going anywhere . We'll still be here 10 years from now celebrating that 20th year of operation. We'll still be Denver’s HOMETOWN airline, sponsoring every professional and college sports team that plays in Denver. The city of Denver will still feel proud that F9 is a big part of the Colorado community with sponsorships in all that happens in the Denver Metro area.They won't be worrying if we'll pay our bills, leases, taxes, or offer more employment to the wonderful folks in Colorado. Rather than some they know as sneaky, conniving, demanding service from the city. But, un-able or un-willing to pay their bills, leases, taxes, and continue to lay off more of Colorado’s dedicated workers.
This will be my last post here; you guys are truly threatened and totally pathetic. REMEMBER, you still have to come up with 1.16Billion in savings according to Tilton. I see UAL soon to be in the death spiral right behind USAIR. GOOD LUCK!
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mrfish3726
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We DO have problems with one particular poster getting off on the possibility of us being unemployed. I, for one, apologize to you if anything I've said has insulted you.... it was never directed at you. Honestly!
As for the stinky, fishy guy...YOU get no sorry!
Fly with each passing day and CONTINUING BAD FINACIAL NEWS from UAL the prospect of being un-employed is more real than you are all willing to admit. The folks at USAir have all but written off USAIR heading to liquidation soon. But, UAL won't be to far behind once management says that YOU the employees are the only saving grace for UniTED's survival. The same speal the USAIR management is telling their employees. It will be interesting to see exactly how much more your ALL willing to give to keep a job, and save a compamy that continually screws over it's employees time and again!
As with Bus/Seque, and now Fly, I am moving out of the UAL threads. But I will continue to watch in the coming weeks and months as UAL'S situation worsens with each passing 30 day BK extension. GOOD LUCK!
Note: I have never wished any employee at UAL to lose their livelihood. I have only ALWAYS pointed out that your management is the one that is going to make you un-employed not F9. Frontier will be a survivor when this industry finishes this shake down.
As for the stinky, fishy guy...YOU get no sorry!
Fly with each passing day and CONTINUING BAD FINACIAL NEWS from UAL the prospect of being un-employed is more real than you are all willing to admit. The folks at USAir have all but written off USAIR heading to liquidation soon. But, UAL won't be to far behind once management says that YOU the employees are the only saving grace for UniTED's survival. The same speal the USAIR management is telling their employees. It will be interesting to see exactly how much more your ALL willing to give to keep a job, and save a compamy that continually screws over it's employees time and again!
As with Bus/Seque, and now Fly, I am moving out of the UAL threads. But I will continue to watch in the coming weeks and months as UAL'S situation worsens with each passing 30 day BK extension. GOOD LUCK!
Note: I have never wished any employee at UAL to lose their livelihood. I have only ALWAYS pointed out that your management is the one that is going to make you un-employed not F9. Frontier will be a survivor when this industry finishes this shake down.
