65 MPG and we cannot get it

[Bobbie]

You can get Opels here now...they're called Saturns... They've more or less turned Saturn into the American version of Opel models

The Saturn Astra is the Opel Astra
The Saturn Aura is the Opel Vectra
The Saturn Sky is the Opel GT
The Saturn View is the Opel Antara

The Saturn Outlook is the only one that's not an Opel design.

 

[Cosworth]

I drove a Opel Astra (the new Saturn Astra. It was a 5 cylinder diesel 6 speed (I do not remember if it was a turbo or not) and I was really impressed. I remember thinking that if it had a sunroof I would have stolen it and shipped it back to the states.

Yahoo cars review

The diesel Astra makes about 57 mpg combined.

 

[777 fixer]

You can get Opels here now...they're called Saturns... They've more or less turned Saturn into the American version of Opel models

The Saturn Astra is the Opel Astra
The Saturn Aura is the Opel Vectra
The Saturn Sky is the Opel GT
The Saturn View is the Opel Antara

The Saturn Outlook is the only one that's not an Opel design.

Has done wonders for Saturn sales. Goes to show GM can take a great idea and screw it up five ways to Sunday. When Saturn first entered the market there was a waiting list for them. Now the cars they offer are more expensive than the ones they replaced and get lower gas mileage. Good job GM!

 

[777 fixer]

No, over night is definitely not going to happen. I think one of the biggest problems with public transportation is politicians always try to line the pockets of their friends and themselves by going way over board.

One idea I had was to use the existing freeway system as a public bus route. The exit/entrances would be pick up/drop points. We do not need 4 gas stations on each corner. Use immanent domain (for a good cause fianlly) and shut down two of them (one each side) and tuen them in to parking lots. People can drive to the local parking spot, walk up the stairs to the bus stop on the freeway median, rid the bus to their closest stop and take a shuttle to work. Incentives could be given for companies to run shuttles too and from the stops. Smaller companies could pool their resources. It is not a perfect solution but it is definitely a start. I worked right off the freeway and live one mile off the freeway. I know I am not alone. Give me a clean safe bus to ride and I am on board. In the mean time, we can start building subways or light rail to make it even more convenient father down line.

We do not always need to go for the most advanced, all the bells and whistles solution. Sometimes basic works better.

As for diesel, I think it is another supply/demand issue. The more people who buy them, the more affordable it becomes. MB is expensive becasue MB is expensive, not necessarily the technology. I am sure the Honda's will not be that much more than a gaser and VW is getting better in terms of reliability. The Europeans are buying diesels by the droves. IIRC the numbers are somewhere near the 50% mark. I seriously doubt they are all buying POS. I drove a Opel Astra (the new Saturn Astra. It was a 5 cylinder diesel 6 speed (I do not remember if it was a turbo or not) and I was really impressed. I remember thinking that if it had a sunroof I would have stolen it and shipped it back to the states. I have never been a fan of US cars so for me to say I wanted an Opel says a lot. If the big three can do it for Europe, then can do it for the US. They just choose not to. Given that VW seems to have a hard time keeping the diesels on their lot for more than a few days, I do not think it is a consumer issue anymore.

I don't think bus stops on a freeway median is really a good idea. Besides, if you are going to use eminent domain to improve public transportation it would be better to use it for trains. Buses can still get stuck in traffic, trains do not.

US autobuilders can put out a good car when they put their minds to it. The Saturn I drive is a good example. I'll put up against any Japanese or European car in terms of value, fuel economy and reliability. Unfortanetly as I stated in my previous post US autobuilders have a knack for screwing things up.

 

[Bobbie]

Saturn was unique. The cars themselves never stacked up against the Japanese in any way other than having above average reliability. The original Saturns (before they became GM cars) were loud, unrefined, and unremarkable. Rankings of the cars were always solidly in the middle in every category, but with above-average or excellent reliability and owner satisfaction. The build quality was good, but the tolerances were nowhere near a Japanese vehicle. The owner satisfaction numbers had a lot more to do with marketing and keeping a tight noose on the dealers than it did on the cars themselves. The level of communication with the owners that Saturn once maintained was admirable. The owner clubs, magazines, surveys, dealer barbeques, etc. It was a very involved ownership experience.

No Japanese car company ever offered the dealership/ownership experience that Saturn did. Saturn offered a modestly priced, utterly unremarkable car, sold at full MSRP only, and with a premium dealership experience. No one ever did that in that price range. The Japanese use traditional, American dealer methods and favor catering to the local crowd than imposing Japanese ways on the dealers themselves. A Toyota dealer is no less sleazy than a Chevrolet dealer...it's just a better product at Toyota. In that respect, Saturn was unique in that no one had attempted that "owner family" model and got the customers as involved as Saturn did. And, you'd almost have to do it like that because the Saturn product was inferior to the Japanese...it was the experience that was better. It was different, refreshingly different.

In the end, the Saturn experiment was a costly one. The labor relations at their Tennessee plant were hostile, to say the least, and all that marketing and dealer gimmicks were expensive for cars in that price range. It just didn't make sense to let Saturn go forward on a standalone plan. GM stood to make more money elsewhere.

On one note, they did try to sell Saturns in Japan. Some of you may recall that they made a huge PR campaign about the Saturn launch in Japan. They didn't, unfortunately, have a huge PR campaign celebrating when the brand failed in Japan and they had to ship all the right hand drive Saturns back to the U.S. to be sold as rural postal vehicles. It was comical.