No worries... If US was able to raise ~$950M just last December, I am sure AA won't have a problem dragging some $ in from somewhere....
AA depleting $$$$$
- Thread starter Hopeful
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NewHampshire Black Bears
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A quick question AA F/A's.
Are you experiencing these DEPLORABLE conditions on our other narrowbody's(737/757), as much, or a Close to as much, as the S-80's ???
Thanx in advance.
Are you experiencing these DEPLORABLE conditions on our other narrowbody's(737/757), as much, or a Close to as much, as the S-80's ???
Thanx in advance.
B
BigBangTheory
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YES!!!! Also on the 767-200. The 767-200 is now the S80 of the fleet. Its know as the not on-time machine.
I apologize, Hopeful. I've mentioned it before, but it was wrong of me to expect you to remember what I do. Especially since I post on various subjects as if they were also within my area of expertise.
I agree with your gut feeling, however. I see AA's cash balance falling fast. Like every other airline, AA had to pay out cash to the counterparties to its fuel hedging agreements in the last half of 2008 and in the first quarter of this year. Fortunately, AA's outlay was less than half of UA's or DL's hedging losses. But unless AArpey figures out how to increase cash and do it fast, AA is at great risk of filing later this year or early next year. Stock traders have already figured that out - that's why AA is trading at Bankruptcy-Imminent prices like $3 lately.
I'm certain that the execs are not depleting cash intentionally with a view to filing a Ch 11 petition since there are no benefits associated with filing Ch 11 with minimal cash. The more cash a company has when it files, the greater the odds it emerges. Nevertheless, AA is depleting cash. Wasting it on unecessary (according to you and me) capex and wastng it on operations. $24 billion companies are often rife with waste.
Agreed. It's often said that pilots won't intentionally fly an unsafe airplane because they themselves aren't ready to die - they want to get home safely just like everyone else. Well, in my view, management doesn't intentionally crash their companies either - they want to keep the cushy existence going as long as they can. Like squeezing golden geese, the trick is to know just how hard you can squeeze without harming egg production.
In discussing AIG on the Tonight Show last night, the President mentioned the prospect that the bonus recipients might sue if the payments were not made and acknowleged that in some places, they might be entitled to triple payments if the bonus payments were not paid on time. There are states where failure to pay wages owed can result in 10% penalties PER DAY until paid, limited to 20 days. That would result in the bonus payments totalling $500 million, not just $165 million. As the President said, the payments are legally binding contracts, but immoral and unethical. Of course, I disagree with the Pres. Stealing and embezzlement are immoral and unethical. Negotiating the best contract you can for yourself is not. And for your sake, it cannot be immoral or unethical.
You have to wonder whether the Washington liberals will ever see the irony in their outrage at the contracts these execs negotiated. Isn't it unethical and immoral for airline employees to negotiate featherbed contracts at high pay rates considering the financial prospects of the airline industry? If not, then how are the AIG execs immoral and unethical?
To me, you get what you negotiate. Historically, aircraft mechanics haven't negotiated all that well for themselves. To compare, there are lawyers now demanding upwards of $1,000 an hour for their time. Exhorbitant? Sure. But they don't use guns or knives to extract those kinds of fees. Nobody HAS to hire them at those rates. They don't even bargain collectively and thus have no strike threat (or CHAOS threat) in their arsenal.
For many years, the UAW contracts were held up by my conservative Republican rightwing friends as Exhibit A in their Labor Gone Wild rant-filled theories. Well, when times were good, they managed to use their collective bargaining rights to their advantage. They extracted loads of economic rent, something you guys have tried to do over the years with not much success. In coming years, UAW members may themselves get a taste of what you've been drinking for many years. If they don't "voluntarily" accept concessions, it will certainly happen once GM files Ch 11.
Like I've posted before, I'd like to see the mechanics paid more, especially those in the high-cost areas. I just don't see where any airline is gonna get the money to restore. Yes, the execs are rolling in ill-gotten variable compensation. But even if they were all paid the same amount as you, that PUP/PSP money wouldn't amount to a dollar an hour raise for everyone else company-wide.
jimntx
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Call me old-fashioned, but in the old days, bonusses were awarded for meeting or exceeding my quota/goals/etc. or if the company made an exceptional profit. And, unless my goals were what were called "stretch goals"--i.e., more than what was really expected from me or my group--I got paid my salary for just meeting my goals. Now, some of the recipients of the largest bonusses were employed in the areas of AIG that brought it to the point of having to borrow billions of dollars from the government just to survive. Let's make a wild leap of faith and assume that if I am heading up the area of the company that caused it to fail, I did not "meet or exceed" my goals. And, for the sake of argument, let's assume that AIG did not make an exceptional profit.
Negotiating a contract that says I get my bonus regardless of my performance or the company's financial performance and condition IS immoral and unethical--(see also, AMR PUP bonusses, or whatever acronym they are using this year for legal theft). In fact, I would say that one could make a case for jointly negotiated embezzlement against both me and my boss.
As a lawyer, I am sure that you can come up with even more examples than I of situations/actions that were legal, but neither moral nor ethical. Right off the top of my head--slavery, women not having the right to vote, segregation. All of these were at one time legal until we as a society became sufficiently outraged at the abuse inherent in such situations. The time has come that the excesses of Wall Street and big business need to come to a stop.
And, please don't threaten me with the possibility that the best and the brightest might leave the industry if they couldn't get such egregiously unethical contracts in the future. Boo-frickin-hoo. I doubt it seriously. What are they going to do? Teach school? Sell used cars? If they aren't willing to produce results in return for compensation, let's all wave them a fond farewell as they leave the financial district (or Centreport) with their coffee mug and their paperweight in a cardboard box.
And no, I do not subscribe to the John Thain "I deserve a $10 million bonus because the losses were only $10 billion and could have been worse" school of compensation, either.
I think it safe to say its the so called brightest and the best are the ones who led us down the path to where we are today. What we need leading our industries are the moral and the ethical. People who dont chummy up and stack the board with there buddies and reward each other with bonuses and outrageous salaries regardless of whether the company does good or bad.
I am so tired like I am sure so many people are of the old "well we have to pay them or someone else will". Funny how it only applies to managers and not the top performing mechanics, and customer service people.
Example, I go to a certain supermarket because of one person. She is a sweet, nice person, with a smile and kind word to everyone. She does more for the bottom line and returning customers than any of the managers there. I have plenty of reason to go some where else, but spend my money there for only one.
I am so tired like I am sure so many people are of the old "well we have to pay them or someone else will". Funny how it only applies to managers and not the top performing mechanics, and customer service people.
Example, I go to a certain supermarket because of one person. She is a sweet, nice person, with a smile and kind word to everyone. She does more for the bottom line and returning customers than any of the managers there. I have plenty of reason to go some where else, but spend my money there for only one.
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Thanx.."theory",
I'd Imagine, as more 777's come on line, that those 767-200 will give way to the oldest -300's for the JFK shuttle to LAX/SFO
Unlikely Bears. The 762 are getting a makeover and are the only remaining 3 class 767's flying. The route has competition and even as they have scaled back AA is not in a position to add seats to the transcon routes.
FrequentFlierCA
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Wow, that really isn't that much considering that AA won't see a profitable quarter this year, and next year is in doubt, too.
Itestwell: As for US raising $950 million in cash last December, do you have a link to that? I find that very hard to believe, especially post-Lehman Brothers.
Yes sir/maam (excuse my error; it was October....)..... :
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CW...24/ai_n30933353
It seems that when it comes to workers contracts are not sacred but when it comes to executives they are. These companies were accepting government handouts due to mismanagement yet these executives still felt they were entitled to bonuses. Pure hipocrisy.
For about the 100th time that you've made this claim, where is the featherbedding written into the contract? Our contract is on the internet, go ahead, find the featherbedding or admit you are just a liar, er lawyer, making things up to support your point of view.
No, they just get to write the laws and make the rules. Under those conditions you dont need knives or guns. By the way Madoff didnt use guns or knives either.
Where are they going to get it? Out of that $24 billion they rake in a year thats where. Maybe they will have to stop building billion dollar terminals, negotiate for cheaper landing fees (over $4000 for a 777 at JFK), pay less for parts ($1000 toilet seats) pay less intrest to the banks, negotiate lower leases on their planes, cut the departure tax ($100 per passenger) and push the government to develope alternate fuel sources. What it all boils down to is if the economy can't afford to have us stop working then they better find a way to pay us. Every entity around the airline is raking in the bucks, well like you said about the Golden Goose, they've it squeezed too hard.
BoeingBoy
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A slight correction...
US closed deals on $800 million in additional capital in the 4th quarter of 2008, although they secured commitments for $950 million. As the article itestwell provided the link for says, the additional $150 million in capital closed after the end of 2008.
Jim
H
HottootrotNyc
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It amazes me how people make stuff like, updating, outdated systems, into "THEY ARE SPENDING ALL OF OUR CASH TO PUT US AND CHAPTER 11 AND STICK IT TO US AND THE PILOTS!!!". Do some of you actually think before you apply what's in your head to paper? If AA wanted to go into Chapter 11, they would of spared themselves the bull#### from years ago, and just went in and sliced and diced everyones contract, like UAL, and US Airways.
It is horrible how the greed on upper level's is still going strong, but it's amazing how the pilot's have also affected the company. The list of demand's the Pilot's have in many aspect's is a joke. Will they leave anything for the Flight Attendant's or anyone else to pick from? I doubt it, most think they are god's, and do work holyer then Jesus Christ himself. AA is still a strong company and hopefully will remian a strong, but if everyone, including upper management doesn't wake up to the "New" airline industry. It's not going to be pretty and Chapter 11 will seem like a great party you wanted to go to.
It is horrible how the greed on upper level's is still going strong, but it's amazing how the pilot's have also affected the company. The list of demand's the Pilot's have in many aspect's is a joke. Will they leave anything for the Flight Attendant's or anyone else to pick from? I doubt it, most think they are god's, and do work holyer then Jesus Christ himself. AA is still a strong company and hopefully will remian a strong, but if everyone, including upper management doesn't wake up to the "New" airline industry. It's not going to be pretty and Chapter 11 will seem like a great party you wanted to go to.
FrequentFlierCA
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Thanks for that. I have to say I had a hard time believing US could raise that much cash post-Lehman collapse, but there you go. I hope AA has similar success when it's time to roll over its debt in the next year or so.
