AA management returns shares? Are you fooled?[BR][BR]The real question is:[BR][BR]How many shares did they keep and how many do they currently own?[A href=http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030103/1626000341_1.html target=_self][BR][BR][BR]http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030103/1626000341_1.html[/A]
AA Management Returns Shares
- Thread starter RV4
- Start date
Hmmm... If the stock was issued to them already and they return it before the end of the year, do they get to claim any losses for tax purposes?
I do not know the rules, but maybe they are getting a tax break "and" at the same time show all of us,they are also giving back 3%?
Does anybody know?
I do not know the rules, but maybe they are getting a tax break "and" at the same time show all of us,they are also giving back 3%?
Does anybody know?
Rational Thought
Member
- Dec 5, 2002
- 66
- 0
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On 1/4/2003 12:35:55 AM limit wrote:
Hmmm... If the stock was issued to them already and they return it before the end of the year, do they get to claim any losses for tax purposes?
I do not know the rules, but maybe they are getting a tax break "and" at the same time show all of us,they are also giving back 3%?
Does anybody know?
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Not an expert, but my understanding is that the shares are "allocated" to them by AMR, but held by the company. They don't legally own them, so they don't get the tax loss.
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On 1/4/2003 12:35:55 AM limit wrote:
Hmmm... If the stock was issued to them already and they return it before the end of the year, do they get to claim any losses for tax purposes?
I do not know the rules, but maybe they are getting a tax break "and" at the same time show all of us,they are also giving back 3%?
Does anybody know?
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[/blockquote]
Not an expert, but my understanding is that the shares are "allocated" to them by AMR, but held by the company. They don't legally own them, so they don't get the tax loss.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #4
"The shares were granted under the (2002-2003) performance plan," [BR]AMR spokesman Gus Whitcomb said.[BR][BR]Can someone please post the terms of the "performance plan" or tell us where the employee can read the details? If management really wants to communicate as they claim, then give us the facts please.
You people are ridiculous. You whine when they get a bonus...you whine when they don't get a bonus. If you're so damn envious, join mgmt, work their hours, do their job. That's the pay for it. Your pay is your pay. You hired a union to negotiate, they hired a lawyer to negotiate. And if it really bothers you that freakin' much...go start your own darn company.
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On 1/5/2003 10:03:46 AM flyhigh wrote:
You people are ridiculous. You whine when they get a bonus...you whine when they don't get a bonus. If you're so damn envious, join mgmt, work their hours, do their job. That's the pay for it. Your pay is your pay. You hired a union to negotiate, they hired a lawyer to negotiate. And if it really bothers you that freakin' much...go start your own darn company.
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Good post, flyhigh!
About flipping time somebody said it...
Peace!
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On 1/5/2003 10:03:46 AM flyhigh wrote:
You people are ridiculous. You whine when they get a bonus...you whine when they don't get a bonus. If you're so damn envious, join mgmt, work their hours, do their job. That's the pay for it. Your pay is your pay. You hired a union to negotiate, they hired a lawyer to negotiate. And if it really bothers you that freakin' much...go start your own darn company.
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[/blockquote]
Good post, flyhigh!
About flipping time somebody said it...
Peace!
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Easy there, WXGUESSER! I don't think most employees belittle upper management for their extra compensation and "bennies." I do think however that when management gets too greedy and makes poor decisions, they should admit to it and not just point to labor as their woes. If these greedy managers had no unions to deal with, airline workers would probably be a hair above the requirements needed for food stamps. Just like I don't think a professional baseball player should not make hundreds of millions of dollars over many years, the average fan who most likely has to charge the tickets and limit himself to one hotdog doesn't care about that ballplayer's salary. Trouble is that in order to pay the ballplayers' higher compensation, the price of ticket most likely goes up. Not the same in the airline industry.
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On 1/4/2003 4:55:31 PM RV4 wrote:
"The shares were granted under the (2002-2003) performance plan,"
AMR spokesman Gus Whitcomb said.
Can someone please post the terms of the "performance plan" or tell us where the employee can read the details? If management really wants to communicate as they claim, then give us the facts please.
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[/blockquote]
All executive comp plans like this are disclosed to all shareholders (and the rest of the world) when they are reproduced in the annual 10-Ks, Proxy Statements and Annual Reports. You can read all the details at the SEC website for free.
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On 1/4/2003 4:55:31 PM RV4 wrote:
"The shares were granted under the (2002-2003) performance plan,"
AMR spokesman Gus Whitcomb said.
Can someone please post the terms of the "performance plan" or tell us where the employee can read the details? If management really wants to communicate as they claim, then give us the facts please.
----------------
[/blockquote]
All executive comp plans like this are disclosed to all shareholders (and the rest of the world) when they are reproduced in the annual 10-Ks, Proxy Statements and Annual Reports. You can read all the details at the SEC website for free.
Hopeful,
Not the best example as their are two advantages atheletes have over airline...
1)virtual monopoly...Minneapolis has one baseball team. They have 1 hun in NW, but can still use AA, CO, DL, UA, et. al. to get somewhere...competition has that nasty habit of hurting revenue.
2)Sports teams, as the players know, has loyalty....loyalty in the airlines is built on who has the lowest price when I want to go where I want to go.
...and if they're so bad a mgmt team, get some buddys at work together and start buying shares...GOD NO, I'm not proposing an ESOP. I'm saying call your broker and buy shares independantly. Buy as a group...become a challenger of what you think is wrong. But, please, should you choose a route like this, begin to understand the business from all sides, not just the operation.
Not the best example as their are two advantages atheletes have over airline...
1)virtual monopoly...Minneapolis has one baseball team. They have 1 hun in NW, but can still use AA, CO, DL, UA, et. al. to get somewhere...competition has that nasty habit of hurting revenue.
2)Sports teams, as the players know, has loyalty....loyalty in the airlines is built on who has the lowest price when I want to go where I want to go.
...and if they're so bad a mgmt team, get some buddys at work together and start buying shares...GOD NO, I'm not proposing an ESOP. I'm saying call your broker and buy shares independantly. Buy as a group...become a challenger of what you think is wrong. But, please, should you choose a route like this, begin to understand the business from all sides, not just the operation.
I am not quite sure how you came up to the conclusions you did, from my post.
I believe that the only thing, one could infer from my question, is a deep distrust of upper management at AA.
With all due respect, your conclusions are rather silly and your tone childish.
All employees of this company have a vested financial (and many of us emotional)interest in the future of this company.
Having said that, I also subscribe to “ Your pay is your pay†notion.
I have never asked anybody to give up (lawyer or union) negotiated pay.
The management of this company has.
Thanks for the input AAA and Rational.
I believe that the only thing, one could infer from my question, is a deep distrust of upper management at AA.
With all due respect, your conclusions are rather silly and your tone childish.
All employees of this company have a vested financial (and many of us emotional)interest in the future of this company.
Having said that, I also subscribe to “ Your pay is your pay†notion.
I have never asked anybody to give up (lawyer or union) negotiated pay.
The management of this company has.
Thanks for the input AAA and Rational.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #11
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On 1/5/2003 10:03:46 AM flyhigh wrote:
You people are ridiculous. You whine when they get a bonus...you whine when they don't get a bonus. If you're so damn envious, join mgmt, work their hours, do their job. That's the pay for it. Your pay is your pay. You hired a union to negotiate, they hired a lawyer to negotiate. And if it really bothers you that freakin' much...go start your own darn company.
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Envious? Are you kidding? AA Management is the most undesired job on the payroll.
Investigating the truth is not "whining".
We are being asked to give-up a negotiated payraise, and we would like to know if times are so hard that performance bonuses and stock options are still being paid.
There is an epays payroll stub floating around the Tulsa Maintnenance Base that shows a $3500 bonus mistakenly placed into a mechanics account intsead of the intended management target. No indirect response or direct explanation has been given, just like the request on this thread. NO TRUTH has been offered, just deflecting conversation.
You can call this "whining" all you desire, I will not be intimdated by such childish statements.
I requested information on how to find the facts regarding the stock options in the "performance plan", and all I get from you is a claim that I am envious.
Failure to provide the data at this point will only enhance the distrust and make things worse not better.
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On 1/5/2003 10:03:46 AM flyhigh wrote:
You people are ridiculous. You whine when they get a bonus...you whine when they don't get a bonus. If you're so damn envious, join mgmt, work their hours, do their job. That's the pay for it. Your pay is your pay. You hired a union to negotiate, they hired a lawyer to negotiate. And if it really bothers you that freakin' much...go start your own darn company.
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[/blockquote]
Envious? Are you kidding? AA Management is the most undesired job on the payroll.
Investigating the truth is not "whining".
We are being asked to give-up a negotiated payraise, and we would like to know if times are so hard that performance bonuses and stock options are still being paid.
There is an epays payroll stub floating around the Tulsa Maintnenance Base that shows a $3500 bonus mistakenly placed into a mechanics account intsead of the intended management target. No indirect response or direct explanation has been given, just like the request on this thread. NO TRUTH has been offered, just deflecting conversation.
You can call this "whining" all you desire, I will not be intimdated by such childish statements.
I requested information on how to find the facts regarding the stock options in the "performance plan", and all I get from you is a claim that I am envious.
Failure to provide the data at this point will only enhance the distrust and make things worse not better.
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 1/6/2003 6
40 AM RV4 wrote:
There is an epays payroll stub floating around the Tulsa Maintnenance Base that shows a $3500 bonus mistakenly placed into a mechanics account intsead of the intended management target. No indirect response or direct explanation has been given, just like the request on this thread. NO TRUTH has been offered, just deflecting conversation.
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[/blockquote]
Oh, please. Anyone with 10 minutes and basic knowledge of html can produce an ePays look-alike which shows their 2002 YTD income as anything between $19.95 and $2,956,293.75!
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On 1/6/2003 6
40 AM RV4 wrote: There is an epays payroll stub floating around the Tulsa Maintnenance Base that shows a $3500 bonus mistakenly placed into a mechanics account intsead of the intended management target. No indirect response or direct explanation has been given, just like the request on this thread. NO TRUTH has been offered, just deflecting conversation.
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[/blockquote]
Oh, please. Anyone with 10 minutes and basic knowledge of html can produce an ePays look-alike which shows their 2002 YTD income as anything between $19.95 and $2,956,293.75!
Rational Thought
Member
- Dec 5, 2002
- 66
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 1/6/2003 9:01:41 AM eolesen wrote:
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On 1/6/2003 640 AM RV4 wrote:
There is an epays payroll stub floating around the Tulsa Maintnenance Base that shows a $3500 bonus mistakenly placed into a mechanics account intsead of the intended management target. No indirect response or direct explanation has been given, just like the request on this thread. NO TRUTH has been offered, just deflecting conversation.
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[/blockquote]
Oh, please. Anyone with 10 minutes and basic knowledge of html can produce an ePays look-alike which shows their 2002 YTD income as anything between $19.95 and $2,956,293.75!
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I agree with eolesen. You can also forge any electronic document. Everything from look-n-feel to the sending info so that it looks like an AA generated. This epay story smells.
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On 1/6/2003 9:01:41 AM eolesen wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 1/6/2003 6
40 AM RV4 wrote: There is an epays payroll stub floating around the Tulsa Maintnenance Base that shows a $3500 bonus mistakenly placed into a mechanics account intsead of the intended management target. No indirect response or direct explanation has been given, just like the request on this thread. NO TRUTH has been offered, just deflecting conversation.
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[/blockquote]
Oh, please. Anyone with 10 minutes and basic knowledge of html can produce an ePays look-alike which shows their 2002 YTD income as anything between $19.95 and $2,956,293.75!
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[/blockquote]
I agree with eolesen. You can also forge any electronic document. Everything from look-n-feel to the sending info so that it looks like an AA generated. This epay story smells.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #14
Sorry, just trying to keep you informed of what is taking place around us.
If this board is now for only those facts which can be proven to be legitimate, untainted, and not created by those that may have ill intentions. I will now close and say good luck getting info.
After all it is really just a big conspiracy.
I would assume someone could also hack into this board and login as one of you two that wish to believe the company can do no wrong or lie. Thus the board has now been rendered useless.
Maybe even the story about returning shares is a fabrication and false?
If this board is now for only those facts which can be proven to be legitimate, untainted, and not created by those that may have ill intentions. I will now close and say good luck getting info.
After all it is really just a big conspiracy.
I would assume someone could also hack into this board and login as one of you two that wish to believe the company can do no wrong or lie. Thus the board has now been rendered useless.
Maybe even the story about returning shares is a fabrication and false?
flygal4500
Member
- Jan 6, 2003
- 15
- 0
Bonuses are not being paid -- haven't been for two years and not likely for 2003 either. But then, neither is profit sharing.
The stock options that are out there are all under water -- worth less than they were issued for -- for management and pilots. So, no, you're not being asked to sacrifice something that management hasn't already given.
The stock options that are out there are all under water -- worth less than they were issued for -- for management and pilots. So, no, you're not being asked to sacrifice something that management hasn't already given.
