What you need to do is stop picketing and leafletting and walk off the job. Shut the place down....
AFA to continue Picketing and leafleting all summer long...get ready!
- Thread starter PITbull
- Start date
JS
Veteran
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On 7/2/2003 3:53:06 PM PineyBob wrote:
Whoa JS,
That''s very harsh, These folks bust their butts to ensure that your experience in the air and on the ground is positive. They are the lifeblood of the company. In fact that''s one of the reasons I have been so critical of Sr. Management, They still wrongly feel they are in the transportation business and not in the people business.
It ultimately impossible for a company to have true customer satisfaction without employee satisfaction. When US and the rest of the industry figures this out you will see a return to profitability across the board.
If you follow the topics on this board you know that PITbull and I spar loudly and frequently over how to approach issues but one thing we agree on is that were it not for unions there would be no middle class. I may strongly disagree with PITbull''s strategy and tactics, but I do support her right to be heard. No one has the right to demand the silence of another. That is contrary to the principles of this country.
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On 7/2/2003 3:53:06 PM PineyBob wrote:
Whoa JS,
That''s very harsh, These folks bust their butts to ensure that your experience in the air and on the ground is positive. They are the lifeblood of the company. In fact that''s one of the reasons I have been so critical of Sr. Management, They still wrongly feel they are in the transportation business and not in the people business.
It ultimately impossible for a company to have true customer satisfaction without employee satisfaction. When US and the rest of the industry figures this out you will see a return to profitability across the board.
If you follow the topics on this board you know that PITbull and I spar loudly and frequently over how to approach issues but one thing we agree on is that were it not for unions there would be no middle class. I may strongly disagree with PITbull''s strategy and tactics, but I do support her right to be heard. No one has the right to demand the silence of another. That is contrary to the principles of this country.
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I''m not in US management, and I''m not a US employee. When I am at the airport as a US passenger, I DO NOT want to hear it! It''s that simple! Maybe other people do, but not me. The TSA pisses me off enough as it is. Let''s not make the airport experience worse than it already is.
What is this B.S. about unions being responsible for the creation of the middle class? Unions are responsible for federal labor laws. Now that we have them, unions are unnecessary.
Besides, if that were true, the middle class would comprise only 15% of the American population today. Where did the millions of non-union middle class workers come from, outer space?
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On 7/2/2003 4:09:27 PM JS wrote:
What is this B.S. about unions being responsible for the creation of the middle class? Unions are responsible for federal labor laws. Now that we have them, unions are unnecessary.
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On 7/2/2003 4:09:27 PM JS wrote:
What is this B.S. about unions being responsible for the creation of the middle class? Unions are responsible for federal labor laws. Now that we have them, unions are unnecessary.
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JS, fact is without representation U would have fired every last one of us than rehired a select few paying them $8.00 an hour.
I like Pit bull’s idea about a labor coalition. I know for a fact the flying public doesn''t feel comfortable when the mechanics who service the planes are not happy. Perception was mentioned and that I agree with, so perception it is. I know this from informal conversations with people when they find out I am a mechanic, the first thing they ask: is it safe to fly with the company loosing money and having a disgruntled labor force. Of course the planes are very safe to fly, that is assured with inspectors, the FAA and the mechanics hind end who perform the work. But it’s that magic word, perception, and if the flying public perceives things are not OK in U land, they will either fly elsewhere or raise hell with management. It''s painfully obvious to every employee on the property that this management team is pushing as hard and as far as they possibly can, so the answer is not to simply counter that force, but to exceed that force with counter actions and measures. This management team has bestowed upon the U employees, as Dave himself likes to say, the BIG HAMMER, and the flying public knows this. So I say we exploit that fact just like management exploits its employees by whatever means necessary, including perception.
One other item…the person who mentioned unions are not necessary is very ill informed and is living in a fantasy world where everyone treats his brother like he himself wants to be treated, that was before sin entered the picture, making unions necessary.
One other item…the person who mentioned unions are not necessary is very ill informed and is living in a fantasy world where everyone treats his brother like he himself wants to be treated, that was before sin entered the picture, making unions necessary.
I like Pit bull’s idea about a labor coalition. I know for a fact the flying public doesn''t feel comfortable when the mechanics who service the planes are not happy. Perception was mentioned and that I agree with, so perception it is. I know this from informal conversations with people when they find out I am a mechanic, the first thing they ask: is it safe to fly with the company loosing money and having a disgruntled labor force. Of course the planes are very safe to fly, that is assured with inspectors, the FAA and the mechanics hind end who perform. the work. But it’s that magic word, perception, and if the flying public perceives things are not OK in U land, they will either fly elsewhere or raise hell with management. It''s painfully obvious to every employee on the property that this management team is pushing as hard and as far as they possibly can, so the answer is not to simply counter that force, but to exceed that force with counter actions and measures. This management team has bestowed upon the U employees, as Dave himself likes to say, the BIG HAMMER, and the flying public knows this. So I say we exploit that fact just like management exploits its employees by whatever means necessary, including perception.
Dea Certe
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 889
- 0
flying2low,
So, scheduling thinks 75% of sick calls are bogus? How do they figure that? I don''t believe it. As another poster on this thread said, we are not required to go into the details of our illness with scheduling. They don''t have the time to hear it and it''s not their job to dispute it.
I usually call my supervisor to let him know I''ve called off and why. I always get a doctor''s note just in case there''s any question of the legitimacy of my illness. I''ve never been on the "attendance program" and don''t abuse the sick policy. Why should I be punished?
If the management believes there''s this much abuse, why don''t they go after the individual offenders?
Keep in mind flight attendants can''t come to work with the minor maladies those who sit behind desks do. If we sprain a finger and require a splint, it''s against the FAR''s to come to work in less than 100% ability to perform our safety-related duties. We can''t come to work with a brace on our arm for relief from carpal tunnel syndrome. Should we break an limb, we can''t work until the limb is out of the cast. We can''t wear braces on our limbs while at work either. Should one need foot surgery, we can''t come back to work until we can fit our foot into "regulation shoes". There is no "light duty" for flight attendants.
We have no business coming to work with colds or sinus infections. Besides the obvious contagion spreading to both fellow workers and customers, there''s always the risk of blowing out an eardrum during climb or descent. Which can lead to hearing loss and guess what? More time off!
Now that we are at minium staffing, should a flight attendant get a nasty flu-bug or food poisoning, the flight will have to be delayed until scheduling can get a reserve in place. Or worse, cancel the flight altogether. It''s much to the advantage of the company to let the flight attendant stay home until the disease runs (no pun intended) its course rather than force the f/a to show and then have to be replaced downline.
This policy is going to create more problems in the long term. I don''t want my good health endangered by a coworker who is too afraid to call off to bring their germs to visit me and the customers. I would hope a wise captain would remove an ailing flight attendant. Of course, that gets us back to delaying the flight and causing inconvenience for the customers.
What a mess and what a stupid, poorly thought out plan.
Dea
So, scheduling thinks 75% of sick calls are bogus? How do they figure that? I don''t believe it. As another poster on this thread said, we are not required to go into the details of our illness with scheduling. They don''t have the time to hear it and it''s not their job to dispute it.
I usually call my supervisor to let him know I''ve called off and why. I always get a doctor''s note just in case there''s any question of the legitimacy of my illness. I''ve never been on the "attendance program" and don''t abuse the sick policy. Why should I be punished?
If the management believes there''s this much abuse, why don''t they go after the individual offenders?
Keep in mind flight attendants can''t come to work with the minor maladies those who sit behind desks do. If we sprain a finger and require a splint, it''s against the FAR''s to come to work in less than 100% ability to perform our safety-related duties. We can''t come to work with a brace on our arm for relief from carpal tunnel syndrome. Should we break an limb, we can''t work until the limb is out of the cast. We can''t wear braces on our limbs while at work either. Should one need foot surgery, we can''t come back to work until we can fit our foot into "regulation shoes". There is no "light duty" for flight attendants.
We have no business coming to work with colds or sinus infections. Besides the obvious contagion spreading to both fellow workers and customers, there''s always the risk of blowing out an eardrum during climb or descent. Which can lead to hearing loss and guess what? More time off!
Now that we are at minium staffing, should a flight attendant get a nasty flu-bug or food poisoning, the flight will have to be delayed until scheduling can get a reserve in place. Or worse, cancel the flight altogether. It''s much to the advantage of the company to let the flight attendant stay home until the disease runs (no pun intended) its course rather than force the f/a to show and then have to be replaced downline.
This policy is going to create more problems in the long term. I don''t want my good health endangered by a coworker who is too afraid to call off to bring their germs to visit me and the customers. I would hope a wise captain would remove an ailing flight attendant. Of course, that gets us back to delaying the flight and causing inconvenience for the customers.
What a mess and what a stupid, poorly thought out plan.
Dea
JS
Veteran
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On 7/2/2003 4:34:21 PM tug_slug wrote:
JS, fact is without representation U would have fired every last one of us than rehired a select few paying them $8.00 an hour.
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On 7/2/2003 4:34:21 PM tug_slug wrote:
JS, fact is without representation U would have fired every last one of us than rehired a select few paying them $8.00 an hour.
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Most employees at Delta have no union representation. Why didn''t DL cut everyone''s pay to $8 an hour? DL, US, same thing, they''re both airlines losing money.
JS
Veteran
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On 7/2/2003 7:28:19 PM PineyBob wrote:
JS,
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them! As late as the early 70''s unionized worker made up nearly 35% of the ENTIRE workforce in the Unuted States. Unions allowed coal miners to earn a wage that allowed them to not have their babies starve to death in the coal camps. I personally know people whose brothers and sisters starved to death in the coal fields. It also allowed them safer working conditions. Workers wives were fondled by suprervisors at company functions and if a man rose in defense of his wife''s honor he was fired. Worker were paird in company script instead of US Dollars effectively making them slaves. You enjoy a 5 day work week because of unions, you enjoy company paid health benefits because of unions (with help from WWII), Most of what you take for granted in your work life you owe to a union man who was beaten, stabbed, shot at and killed for you and for me.
I battle PITbull and others on here because the modern day union in my opinion is a joke. But if you think that unions played no part in the standard of living you currently enjoy then clearly you are not a student of history. Even the most die hard republican will tell you what I have just told you.
I find your attitude to be rather self important. Just remember that in the words of no less than Jesus himself, "Whatsoever you do unto the least of my brethren, you do unto me also" There is no disgrace in honest labor and I respect everyone who works for a living. Even you! Unless of course you are one of those silver spoon trust fund types!
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On 7/2/2003 7:28:19 PM PineyBob wrote:
JS,
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them! As late as the early 70''s unionized worker made up nearly 35% of the ENTIRE workforce in the Unuted States. Unions allowed coal miners to earn a wage that allowed them to not have their babies starve to death in the coal camps. I personally know people whose brothers and sisters starved to death in the coal fields. It also allowed them safer working conditions. Workers wives were fondled by suprervisors at company functions and if a man rose in defense of his wife''s honor he was fired. Worker were paird in company script instead of US Dollars effectively making them slaves. You enjoy a 5 day work week because of unions, you enjoy company paid health benefits because of unions (with help from WWII), Most of what you take for granted in your work life you owe to a union man who was beaten, stabbed, shot at and killed for you and for me.
I battle PITbull and others on here because the modern day union in my opinion is a joke. But if you think that unions played no part in the standard of living you currently enjoy then clearly you are not a student of history. Even the most die hard republican will tell you what I have just told you.
I find your attitude to be rather self important. Just remember that in the words of no less than Jesus himself, "Whatsoever you do unto the least of my brethren, you do unto me also" There is no disgrace in honest labor and I respect everyone who works for a living. Even you! Unless of course you are one of those silver spoon trust fund types!
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Yes, I know about all that. I am not talking about history, I am talking about today.
Your 35% figure just proves my point. There are fewer union members today, yet the economy managed to grow quite a bit in the last 30 years.
High Iron
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 495
- 0
-----"Most employees at Delta have no union representation"----
That''s right. That their compensation is competitive with unionized carriers is due less to benevolence than a way to keep discontent down...and unions off the property. Unions have an indirect effect this way, which belies the argument often trotted out regarding their waning numbers ( and influence )
That''s right. That their compensation is competitive with unionized carriers is due less to benevolence than a way to keep discontent down...and unions off the property. Unions have an indirect effect this way, which belies the argument often trotted out regarding their waning numbers ( and influence )
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On 7/3/2003 2
08 PM JS wrote:
Most employees at Delta have no union representation. Why didn''t DL cut everyone''s pay to $8 an hour? DL, US, same thing, they''re both airlines losing money.
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Why do you think Delta pays the wages they do to non union personnel? How long do you think they would be non union if they cut them back to $8.00/hr?On 7/3/2003 2
08 PM JS wrote: ----------------
On 7/2/2003 4:34:21 PM tug_slug wrote:
JS, fact is without representation U would have fired every last one of us than rehired a select few paying them $8.00 an hour.
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On 7/2/2003 4:34:21 PM tug_slug wrote:
JS, fact is without representation U would have fired every last one of us than rehired a select few paying them $8.00 an hour.
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Most employees at Delta have no union representation. Why didn''t DL cut everyone''s pay to $8 an hour? DL, US, same thing, they''re both airlines losing money.
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On 7/2/2003 3:53:06 PM
PineyBob wrote:
In fact that's one of the reasons I have been so critical of Sr. Management, They still wrongly feel they are in the transportation business and not in the people business.
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On 7/2/2003 3:53:06 PM
PineyBob wrote:
In fact that's one of the reasons I have been so critical of Sr. Management, They still wrongly feel they are in the transportation business and not in the people business.
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PineyBob,
I found this comment interesting. As a front line employee (Mechanic), I certainly feel like I'm in the transportation business. My first reaction would be to disagree with you and say that my bosses are in the transportation business too.
On second thought I realized that your right. My managements job is to administer people who are in the transportation business.
Of course they don't do that either. I believe that they are here to skim the cream off the top of our vocation, and then move on to the next industry. Just watch the C.E.O.s and V.P.s hop from one industry to another.
Like any structured system, when the administrators are corrupt, it's still improper for the rank and file to refuse and rebuke.
Capitalism says that we should just leave and find something else. The problem is that we (the rank and file) ARE in the transportation business. When we complain, we are crying for help. That one of societies infrastructures is being raped. Management will admonish the public to ignore our pleas for help. After all they're just overpaid, lazy Union people. Besides if you let us (management) get rid of those good middle class jobs, we can give you a cheaper product by hiring desperate (maybe even third world) workers.
Which I guess comes down to this. If America, as a society, is willing to not only tolorate, but admire Enron-ism, then our cause is already lost.
Like you said before PineyBob, the old tactics will no longer work. Unless the middle class stands up for itself, and makes itself the American dream, then the U.S. will stratify into a feudal system of overseers and the working poor.
I would encourage all of my co-workers to keep fighting for whats right, trained professionals earning a just, middle class, wage.
On the other hand, I would also encourage all of my co-workers to have a good exit strategy.
I would encourage all of my co-workers to keep fighting for whats right, trained professionals earning a just, middle class, wage.
On the other hand, I would also encourage all of my co-workers to have a good exit strategy.
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Our government made fighting a little easier by giving airlines workers extended benefits and some monies for schooling. That should encourage people to tell the company they can stick the severance and fight for what is only right, what we signed on for and not the crap this management insists is within our contracts. We took a second vote, which we were told was a big favor on Dave''s part so we could keep our scope, which is our work, our livelihood. Everywhere I read or hear spoken, defeatism is the term that comes to mind, which is exactly what this management team wants to see and hear. Their battle is just about over when they see this attitude so prevalent. We are many, they are few, if we get together we will prevail. It’s not hopeless like some people here write or demoralized co-workers speak, it’s only hopeless when you give up the fight. This management team only has the power that we as a collective labor force give them, it’s up to us what happens to our futures, our careers, and defeatism is not the answer. If people are all talking about their next career move, then I say bring it to a head right now, here today and let the chips fall where they may, for the amount money involved I believe we as labor force will see positive and not negative results of labor actions.
PineyBob and repeet,
Gentlemen, well said!
The Revolution (so appropriate on this day) lives!
Let''s celebrate the day, remember those who have fought the good fight, and rejoin the fray tomorrow.
Our cause is just.
Gentlemen, well said!
The Revolution (so appropriate on this day) lives!
Let''s celebrate the day, remember those who have fought the good fight, and rejoin the fray tomorrow.
Our cause is just.
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