Affirmaive Action

[Garfield1966]

So how do we level the playing field?

I do not believe the the field is level. I think it is a dam site better than it was but we still have a way to go.

I think one place to start is the schools. I think the schools in the inner cities need to get a overhaul to make them competitive with the schools like Beverly High fr example. I would like to see the schools open early and close late. I think this would help by giving students who go home to an empty house the opportunity to stay in school with activities. Along with this the schools need to give 3 healthy meals and a snack each day. I think all schools need to be funded and equipped equally. They need to be safe. The teachers need to have high standards and continuously need training. They need to be paid more and they need to understand that they are educating our future and we will not accept substandard service.

I think this is a starting point. I have to go to work ...later

 

[SparrowHawk]

So how do we level the playing field?

I do not believe the the field is level. I think it is a dam site better than it was but we still have a way to go.

I think one place to start is the schools. I think the schools in the inner cities need to get a overhaul to make them competitive with the schools like Beverly High fr example. I would like to see the schools open early and close late. I think this would help by giving students who go home to an empty house the opportunity to stay in school with activities. Along with this the schools need to give 3 healthy meals and a snack each day. I think all schools need to be funded and equipped equally. They need to be safe. The teachers need to have high standards and continuously need training. They need to be paid more and they need to understand that they are educating our future and we will not accept substandard service.

I think this is a starting point. I have to go to work ...later

The playing field in any aspect of life is NEVER a level field.

Everyone comes into this world naked and goes out in a box or an urn. This is an absolute lest you have a physical or mental handicap at birth which percentage wise is low.

Given the above as a citizen of the USA you plop outta Mommy with an equal chance to succeed in life. Any attempt to "Level" in favor of one by its very nature harms another. Is it appropriate to strengthen schools that perform poorly academically? Not really as if you look at test score performance the one thing that stands out in not the $$$$ spent per student, but the ratio of parents to children. The closer that number is to two the better the school as a whole performs.

Two parent families don't accept mediocrity from their school districts or their children. Women who have kids out of wedlock or get involved in abusive relationships do so by choice. Very few, if any are held at gunpoint and forced to get married or become pregnant.

So if those parents kids drop out and end up in crap jobs it's not my fault, it's not the governments fault. You can't as a society reward bad choices and expect to raise your standard of living.

 

[tech2101]

A child was born into a rural, poor school district with no computers, old books, and little tax base to build a decent school house ( the parents were born into the same situation before the CRA). The teachers in the school are making poverty type wages. They teach because nobody else will come to teach there for that wage.

Another child was born in a well to do neighborhood in an excellent school district with new schools and all the latest technology. The teachers are all paid top salaries compared to the rest of the country.

Which child has the advantage?

Which child will have the best opportunity to get a decent job?

Which child will get that acceptance letter to a top college?

Which one will get the scholarship? (unless s/he is one in a million and can play football or basketball)

Thankfully I was not that child.

 

[delldude]

Little dose of Marxist Socialism ought to spread the wealth around then,eh?

 

[SparrowHawk]

A child was born into a rural, poor school district with no computers, old books, and little tax base to build a decent school house ( the parents were born into the same situation before the CRA). The teachers in the school are making poverty type wages. They teach because nobody else will come to teach there for that wage.

Read the book "Rocket Boys" about the 4 young men from the coal fields of West Virginia. One was Hiram Hickam who went on to help place a man on the moon at NASA. For those who are reading impaired you can watch the movie "October Sky" which is based on the book.

Then of course we have the teen couple here in NJ from very very affluent homes and some of the most expensive publically funded schools in the nation, murder their child simply because it would ruin their plans.

Then of course you have my friend Claudine who worked her assets off to get an academic scholarship to an Ivy League school only to be labeled a "Quota Queen" despite graduating Cum Laude. She had the last laugh as she is now COO of one of the fastest growing Minority owned corporations in the USA.

Clarence Thomas came from extreme poverty and is a Supreme Court Justice.

All of the above have ONE thing in common. They all ended up where they are based on their actions. No programs helped or hindered their progress.

Do the homework on school performance vs Salaries and you'll find little if no correlation. If there were Utah and Iowa would not rank at the top in test scores or near the bottom in teacher salaries. What is revelent is the parental involvement in their childs development. Ask yourself what does a school district in Camden have in common with one in Pine Ridge SD? Give you a hint, teacher salaries have NOTHING to do with it, same for Infrastructure or opportunity. The similarity is to many single parents who fail to parent their children.

Sorry Tech, but on this one you're dead bang wrong

 

[joanne]

Read the book "Rocket Boys" about the 4 young men from the coal fields of West Virginia. One was Hiram Hickam who went on to help place a man on the moon at NASA. For those who are reading impaired you can watch the movie "October Sky" which is based on the book.

Then of course we have the teen couple here in NJ from very very affluent homes and some of the most expensive publically funded schools in the nation, murder their child simply because it would ruin their plans.

Then of course you have my friend Claudine who worked her assets off to get an academic scholarship to an Ivy League school only to be labeled a "Quota Queen" despite graduating Cum Laude. She had the last laugh as she is now COO of one of the fastest growing Minority owned corporations in the USA.

Clarence Thomas came from extreme poverty and is a Supreme Court Justice.

All of the above have ONE thing in common. They all ended up where they are based on their actions. No programs helped or hindered their progress.

Do the homework on school performance vs Salaries and you'll find little if no correlation. If there were Utah and Iowa would not rank at the top in test scores or near the bottom in teacher salaries. What is revelent is the parental involvement in their childs development. Ask yourself what does a school district in Camden have in common with one in Pine Ridge SD? Give you a hint, teacher salaries have NOTHING to do with it, same for Infrastructure or opportunity. The similarity is to many single parents who fail to parent their children.

Sorry Tech, but on this one you're dead bang wrong

For the most part Sparrow, I agree with you, except for One GLARING Exception.
Camden NJ has ......J O B S. (Yes a lot of Crappy jobs I'm sure)
Pine Ridge SD (The OGLALA Lakota/(sioux) Indian reservation has N O ..Jobs. I personally know people who would GLADLY take a min. wage job at KFC if it existed !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm VERY glad you brought up PR/SD, because as the Poorest county in the 50 states, you can see the PROMISED Federal treaties......................Still broken here in 2010 !
Just think of ALL those Silly non native Americans who think that the Feds...Stopped Breaking Treaties a long time ago......................"NOT" !!!

Ah,
Don't ya just Love the SMELL of Manifest Destiny early in the Mornin' ??


joanne

 

[SparrowHawk]

For the most part Sparrow, I agree with you, except for One GLARING Exception.
Camden NJ has ......J O B S. (Yes a lot of Crappy jobs I'm sure)
Pine Ridge SD (The OGLALA Lakota/(sioux) Indian reservation has N O ..Jobs. I personally know people who would GLADLY take a min. wage job at KFC if it existed !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm VERY glad you brought up PR/SD, because as the Poorest county in the 50 states, you can see the PROMISED Federal treaties......................Still broken here in 2010 !
Just think of ALL those Silly non native Americans who think that the Feds...Stopped Breaking Treaties a long time ago......................"NOT" !!!

Ah,
Don't ya just Love the SMELL of Manifest Destiny early in the Mornin' ??


joanne

Another thing you missed is the Lakota have a very real alcohol problem that results in a 35 to 40 percent rate of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS). Since 35 to 40 percent of births are FAS babies so they really don't factor in to the point being made as they fall into category of those born hopelessy impaired.

The other thing with Pine Ridge and the Lakota is the Tribal Leadership has learned the fine art of political greed and corruption at the hands of the white man. Alledgedly the Liquor Store right over the border in NE is secretly owned by members of the Tribal Council. Like Camden, Pine Ridge is a cesspool of despair, hatred, poverty and crime. Is is intractable? I think not as one thing is clear in that both have had about all of the Government "Help" they can stand.

However didn't Russell Means and several leaders of AIM rise up from the sewer that is Pine Ridge? Also let's not forget Leonard Pelletier and the racist courts that convicted him. Folks need to read "In the spirit of Crazy Horse" and educate themselves.

 

[joanne]

Another thing you missed is the Lakota have a very real alcohol problem that results in a 35 to 40 percent rate of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS). Since 35 to 40 percent of births are FAS babies so they really don't factor in to the point being made as they fall into category of those born hopelessy impaired.

The other thing with Pine Ridge and the Lakota is the Tribal Leadership has learned the fine art of political greed and corruption at the hands of the white man. Alledgedly the Liquor Store right over the border in NE is secretly owned by members of the Tribal Council. Like Camden, Pine Ridge is a cesspool of despair, hatred, poverty and crime. Is is intractable? I think not as one thing is clear in that both have had about all of the Government "Help" they can stand.

However didn't Russell Means and several leaders of AIM rise up from the sewer that is Pine Ridge? Also let's not forget Leonard Pelletier and the racist courts that convicted him. Folks need to read "In the spirit of Crazy Horse" and educate themselves.

Couple of points Sparrow,

Your right about what happened to Pellitier, The book..S of CH and RM's !

Giving Alcohol to a people who had NO way of metabolizing its BAD effects which exists to this very day, was a foolproof way to steal land etc.
I guarantee that the emergency room at Camdens biggest hospital, is like the MAYO Clinic compared to whats available to the Lakota on PR ! And oh by the way, that medical care was OWED to them, not like the situation in Camden !

And I say again,......."Don't you just love the Smell of Manifest Destiny............first thing in the Morning" ??

 

[Garfield1966]

The playing field in any aspect of life is NEVER a level field.

Everyone comes into this world naked and goes out in a box or an urn. This is an absolute lest you have a physical or mental handicap at birth which percentage wise is low.

Given the above as a citizen of the USA you plop outta Mommy with an equal chance to succeed in life. Any attempt to "Level" in favor of one by its very nature harms another. Is it appropriate to strengthen schools that perform poorly academically? Not really as if you look at test score performance the one thing that stands out in not the $$$$ spent per student, but the ratio of parents to children. The closer that number is to two the better the school as a whole performs.

Two parent families don't accept mediocrity from their school districts or their children. Women who have kids out of wedlock or get involved in abusive relationships do so by choice. Very few, if any are held at gunpoint and forced to get married or become pregnant.

So if those parents kids drop out and end up in crap jobs it's not my fault, it's not the governments fault. You can't as a society reward bad choices and expect to raise your standard of living.

Make up your mind Sparrow. Either its equal or it's not. I argue that it is not. Minorities and women were not even allowed full citizenship till well after the founding of this country. Women did not gain suffrage till 1920 and blacks did not gain equal rights till 1964. Women still earn less than men for equal work. Minorities still have less economic power than non-minorities.

You point out a hand full of exceptions and wash your hands of it? Seriously? Economics plays a huge roll. Those who are poor are likely to remain as such. The biggest problem is the schools. My father was invited to speak in a school in LA a while back. It was an inner city school. Suffice to say I would never have confused it with Beverly High. An no it had nothing to do with the skin color of the kids who attended.

Bigotry and racism is alive and well in this nation. Are you going to try and argue that out of 150 million women in this nation we cannot find one who is capable of being POTOS? Do you think that the fact that Obama is a light skinned mixed back ground black man is an accident? I do not.

The playing field is so unequal that it defies imagination. Yes we have come along way from 100 years ago but to think that at the stroke of a pen in 1964 racism disappeared boarders on insane in my opinion. The native Americans were doing quite well here till the white an showed up. Mass murders, alcoholism, forced relocation, culture deprivation and the like tend to screw a person up. Some times it can be impossible to adjust.

I do not think there is anything that can be done to help. Yes I think the schools and the communities need more money to balance things out a bit. Perhaps live a little pride to the folks who live there. But for the most part I think it will take time, several generations. Time to grow out of the cultural and environmental constraints that they have been used to living with for generations.

 

[southwind]

My take on AA ? I believe we need more caucasions in the NBA, whether they're qualified or not !

What comes around, should go around !

 

[Wehttam]

So how do we level the playing field?

I do not believe the the field is level. I think it is a dam site better than it was but we still have a way to go.

I think one place to start is the schools. I think the schools in the inner cities need to get a overhaul to make them competitive with the schools like Beverly High fr example. I would like to see the schools open early and close late. I think this would help by giving students who go home to an empty house the opportunity to stay in school with activities. Along with this the schools need to give 3 healthy meals and a snack each day. I think all schools need to be funded and equipped equally. They need to be safe. The teachers need to have high standards and continuously need training. They need to be paid more and they need to understand that they are educating our future and we will not accept substandard service.

I think this is a starting point. I have to go to work ...later

It has always amazed me that after ALL of the government waste, fraud, and abuse that has been and continues to be exposed, that people still look to the government for a solution to their problems. People want a better education for their child but the government won't allow vouchers so inner city/poor kids can attend schools where they will actually get an education instead of an indoctrination. Teacher accountability laws have been attempted but yet are blocked by the NEA. You ever wonder why that is?

To your point on affirmative action, have you ever considered that the concept of affirmative action is racist and counter productive in itself? What incentive is there to work hard and push yourself to succeed if you are just going to be given preferential treatment based on the color of your skin? But wait...isn't that what affirmative action is supposed to prevent?

Also, someone has already tried your government run, desegregated, open check book style of schooling . You can read all about it here: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html . Worked out well huh?