Airbus aircraft to feature Canadian aluminum?

[WorldTraveler]

As a result of the DL pilot agreement earlier this year, DL has been trying to figure out how to dispose of hundreds of CRJs which will be leaving the DCI fleet in the next few years as well as acquire up to 70 new 76 seaters which are allowed under the DALPA PWA.

Richard Anderson has been in Paris talking with Airbus and current pilot rumors are that DL will be buying a small/medium sized fleet of 321s while Airbus will be accepting CRJs at the rate of 3 CRJs to 1 321, obviously along with additional terms of the agreement.

News sources also say that Embraer is offering DL an improved version of the EMB 175 with approx. 5% better fuel burn than the existing model. A decision regarding the 70 76 seaters is expected to be announced before the end of the year.

The 321 would be DL's first factory ordered aircraft since the Pan Am 310 replacements which would be a big win for Airbus.

DL is focusing a significant amount of corporate interest on Brazil, home to Embraer and Gol, in which DL owns a minority stake. It would not be surprising if DL is seeking improvements to its ability to operate in Brazil in exchange for the order. Among other issues, DL has reportedly been denied by Brazilian airport operator Infraero the ability to use the 744 on the ATL-GRU route.

Whether any of this becomes reality remains to be seen but DL is clearly trying to maximize the value of its CRJ fleet - including Pinnacle's, in which DL has provided debtor-in-possession financing, DL has a first mover advantage in acquiring the next batch of 76 seater aircraft, Airbus and Embraer would like to increase their presence at DL, while DL would like to increase its presence in key global markets such as Brazil.

 

[737823]

Interesting. I would think with the NW A320s get up there in age (I think some have already been retired) and the A319s only a few years behind it may not make sense for DL to get non-NEO 321s especially since they have such a large order 739ERs due in about one years time.

Josh

 

[USFlyer]

DL doesn't seem as interested in fleet commonality the way other carriers are. DL seems instead to be focused on getting young to middle age-ish aircraft on the cheap (e.g., MD-90s, 717s).

 

[WorldTraveler]

Interesting. I would think with the NW A320s get up there in age (I think some have already been retired) and the A319s only a few years behind it may not make sense for DL to get non-NEO 321s especially since they have such a large order 739ERs due in about one years time.

Josh

The 319s IIRC are fairly new but supposed DL isn't terribly thrilled with the CASM on them.... it is possible that DL might be going after 321s in part to potentially try to get rid of some of the 319s down the road as well. There is a set of 320s that are near the end of their life and were expected to be retired as part of the 739 order while another set is alot younger.
The 319s do have far more range than the 717s but the 717s will be DL's - and the network carriers' - smallest mainline aircraft and still be capable of serving many of the routes the 319s currently fly. And the 717 has a much lower CASM since it is a much lighter aircraft, even considering the extra seats on the 319.

The primary intent of buying new Airbus aircraft, if it occurs, seems to be driven more by finding a way to get rid of CRJs than by a need to buy more mainline aircraft.

DL doesn't seem as interested in fleet commonality the way other carriers are. DL seems instead to be focused on getting young to middle age-ish aircraft on the cheap (e.g., MD-90s, 717s).

The issue of fleet commonality has been discussed here often but it is true that DL puts a lot less priority on fleet commonality than other airlines.
But remember that the 321 is and will be common with the 319/320 fleet (partly depending on the engine chosen) which already is well above 100 units.
The 739s will be common with the 739s while DL's 757/767 fleet is the largest in the world.
DL's DC9/717/M80/M90 have many commonalities but also have a number of unique features to each model. DL's 717/M90 fleet alone should exceed 150 units regardless of how soon the M80s are retired.
The real advantage in acquiring the 717/M90 fleets is that they are orphan fleets which no one else seems to want but which still have operating economics comparable to current technology aircraft.

If DL takes on the 321, it doesn't really add much complexity to the fleet.

 

[yoyodyne]

And here is the Airbus assembly line rolling out new aircraft. Smell included.

 

[WorldTraveler]

bias aside, the 321 is one of the lowest CASM aircraft in the US and is right up there with the 737-900 in terms of efficiency.

And remember that every US network carrier and several US low fare carriers now operates or will operate Airbus aircraft and AA's inroads into the US market will grow significantly with AA's fleet renewal.


Bias aside, Boeings still form substantial parts of the fleets of European airlines, including in France and Germany.

 

[USFlyer]

US seems to love the A321s. US has been replacing 733s and 734s with A321s. I think there are only a handful of A319s and A320s still on order; most of the remaining orders are A321s. I'm guessing US is able to do this with the low CASM the A321 offers.

 

[robbedagain]

the 321s that we are getting is strictly a replacement planes for the 733s and 734s which ive been told by several pilots the 300s are done this yr end and the 400s done next yr ive heard but not sure but us is to get 330s and may be some 319 or 320s may be 700 can elaborate more on that

 

[USFlyer]

Right, but replacing a B733 or B734 with an A321 is a significant upgauge of like 30-40 seats + an additional flight attendant.

If Wikipedia is accurate, US has 2 A319s, 20 A320s, and 24 A321s on order, all scheduled for delivery between today and 2015. The 734s should be gone by the end of 2014; the 733s should be gone by the end of 2012.

Bringing this back to DL, however, I was originally surprised to see this given I was expecting the NW A319s and A320s to be among the first NW planes to be retired once the DC-9s were retired. If DL adds A321s, it makes eliminating the Airbus narrowbody fleet less important. I always used to think the A321 was the perfect airfact for NW, especially on its ~2-4 hour MSP flights, but NW instead used the 757s. So now that I think more about this, I could see DL seriously considering this option.

 

[700UW]

At December 31, 2011, we operated a mainline fleet of 340 aircraft, up one aircraft from a total of 339 mainline aircraft at December 31, 2010. During 2011, we took delivery of 12 A321 aircraft and added one Boeing 757. During 2011, we removed 12 leased Boeing 737-300 aircraft from our mainline operating fleet. We are also supported by our regional airline subsidiaries and affiliates operating as US Airways Express under capacity purchase agreements, which operated 233 regional jets and 50 turboprops at December 31, 2011. Our prorate carriers operated seven turboprops and seven regional jets at December 31, 2011.

US Airways has definitive purchase agreements with Airbus for the acquisition of 134 aircraft, including 97 single-aisle A320 family aircraft and 37 widebody aircraft (comprised of 22 A350 XWB aircraft and 15 A330-200 aircraft). Since 2008, when deliveries commenced under the purchase agreements, we have taken delivery of 46 aircraft through December 31, 2011, which includes four A320 aircraft, 35 A321 aircraft and seven A330-200 aircraft.

US Airways plans to take delivery of 12 A321 aircraft in 2012, with the remaining 46 A320 family aircraft scheduled to be delivered between 2013 and 2015. In addition, US Airways plans to take delivery of the eight remaining A330-200 aircraft in 2013 and 2014. Deliveries of the 22 A350 XWB aircraft are scheduled to begin in 2017 and extend through 2019. US Airways has financing commitments for all Airbus aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2012.

It's 5 A330-200s next year

 

[yoyodyne]

bias aside, the 321 is one of the lowest CASM aircraft in the US and is right up there with the 737-900 in terms of efficiency.

And remember that every US network carrier and several US low fare carriers now operates or will operate Airbus aircraft and AA's inroads into the US market will grow significantly with AA's fleet renewal.


Bias aside, Boeings still form substantial parts of the fleets of European airlines, including in France and Germany.

Bias aside, Airbii are still pieces of excrement.

 

[WorldTraveler]

US seems to love the A321s. US has been replacing 733s and 734s with A321s. I think there are only a handful of A319s and A320s still on order; most of the remaining orders are A321s. I'm guessing US is able to do this with the low CASM the A321 offers.

US has understood the same dynamics that DL is pushing... larger, more cost efficient mainline aircraft that, more in DL's case than US' so far are replacing smaller regional aircraft.
DL and US' network is built much more around connecting smaller cities to hubs where passengers from those small and medium sized cities have access to a global network. WN's model and other LFCs can never do that; AA and UA in part due to their higher costs do not focus near as much on connecting traffic as point to point traffic.
The 321 is a very cost efficient aircraft for flying high percentages of connecting traffic.
DL's growth in NYC is part of its effort to grow its point to point network which delivers higher revenue at lower costs.
US has indeed pushed its RASM down by replacing 733s and 4s with 321s.... DL and US have a greater ability to fill those extra seats which is why the 739 and 321 are attractive but also good replacements for 757s which are heavier, more capable aircraft than they need to be for many routes.
Depending on how many 321s DL buys, the 739s and 321 could be sufficient to replace a good chunk of DL's 150 plus 757-200s or to start replacing M88s whcih DL previously said would not be replaced by the 739s.

Right, but replacing a B733 or B734 with an A321 is a significant upgauge of like 30-40 seats + an additional flight attendant.

Bringing this back to DL, however, I was originally surprised to see this given I was expecting the NW A319s and A320s to be among the first NW planes to be retired once the DC-9s were retired. If DL adds A321s, it makes eliminating the Airbus narrowbody fleet less important. I always used to think the A321 was the perfect airfact for NW, especially on its ~2-4 hour MSP flights, but NW instead used the 757s. So now that I think more about this, I could see DL seriously considering this option.

Many of the 320s and most of the 319s at DL are fairly young aircraft. About half of the 320s are of an age that they need to be replaced and that is where a chunk of the 739s were targeted along with a group of 757-200s.

DL is using the 319s heavily from LGA and JFK where there are high amounts of local traffic - offsetting the 319s higher CASM - and from SLC and ATL where the longer legs are needed.
NW was very conservative in replacing its aircraft esp. considering that between 9/11 and BK, NW's future as a standalone was in question.
Now that the state of the industry is more stable, DL is leading the industry in reshaping networks and regauging the fleet to push down CASMs.
The 321 and 739 also have the benefit of being able to allow network carriers to compete very effectively wiht low cost carriers even on point to point routes. Note that the 321 and 739 in network carrier configurations will have a CASM close to what WN will fly their 738s with which don't have FC cabins. The network carriers should be able to get higher revenue as a result of the first class cabin as well as by offering higher value connections to cities which WN can't serve.

 

[Kev3188]

I always used to think the A321 was the perfect airfact for NW, especially on its ~2-4 hour MSP flights, but NW instead used the 757s.

The 757-300's were purchased to replace domestic DC-10 flying (including West coast- Hawaii routes). In addition, the idea was that they could "flex" between -200's & -300's as needed on the type of segments you mention (plus type commonality, etc.)...

 

[WorldTraveler]

...and DL is apparently now focusing attention on refitting the 753 cabins in order to add more seats using the same slim line seats that are on other aircraft, remove unnecessary and heavier galley units, and add IFE that is appropriate for many of their longer missions which was not a priority for NW.
The 753s have also been shifted heavily to ATL and are doing flights as short as ATL-MCO where the previous thinking was that 220 seats thru one door made the plane unattractive for such short hauls.

Until the 739s and 321s arrive, the 753 is the lowest CASM aircraft in the fleet which is a big reason why it is a good airplane to use to/from Florida, LAS, and Hawaii.

Remaining competitive requires continually pushing CASM down, something that US and WN are also both doing with WN using the 738 as their primary method. If the 321s do come to DL, it may well be that DL has decided that taking on more debt for new airplanes even with lower CASMs is less risky now, perhaps in part because of the success of some other initiatives that are in the pipeline right now.

 

[dash8roa]

Why order airbus when 100 737-900ers are already on order and all that's needed is to exercise options or just add to the present order. The narrow body fleet is mostly Boeing,why increase a sub fleet?