AIRLINES FEAR COLLAPSE WITHOUT MORE HELP

Aug 19, 2002
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The government also never completely stopped Motorola or IBM from conducting business either.

They've tried to protect steel by raising the tariffs on imports and the EU is still squealing about that.

Chrysler got government money as well.

The airlines aren't looking for direct cash infusions this time, they are looking for tax relief.
 
Sep 7, 2002
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www.yahoo.com/s/18908
I don''t understand why all the airlines are asking the government to bail them out. Ultimately, isn''t the management responsible for the biggest cost to all airlines, labor? They sign off on all the contracts and salary increases (what''s that?) for SAM. I would tell the the airlines to fix the problem yourself, you have already received over $6 billion from us, how much more do you need?
Some would argue the government (the FAA) shut down operations for 3 days in 2001, so they should help the airlines recover. I respond by saying there are downturns (sometimes severe) in every business, and with the downturn come cuts. I don''t think IBM or Motorola has asked the Feds for money to help them out. Why are the airlines so special? I''m a big believer in self help.
 

Busdrvr

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 9/24/2002 11:11:03 PM ual-crewdesk-man wrote:

I don't see what the difference is between a tax break and getting money to help pay the taxes.
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[/blockquote]

Hmm, nearly 25% of each and every ticket going straight to uncle sam...seems a little excessive don't ya think? Ask the next FODM you see to bring in his latest Airline Pilot mag, it has a very good editorialon Taxes. there is 0 tax on Buses and trains (Amtrac is HEAVILY subsidized) and a 0.5% tax on cruise ship tickets. Why are the taxes SOOOOOO much higher for airlines? It's indefensable, and if we were just given relief from the Airline Sin Taxes, we wouldn't need government help.
 

bigJ

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Sep 2, 2002
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ual crewdesk man,
How can you not understand the difference between less taxes/security fees etc...and gov't reimbursement of such. I mean surely you don't think the IRS/FAA/TSA is efficent!?!
Oh yeah, if I remember correctly you said the pilots are mostly responsible(65%) for our current situation. I guess now I do understand why you don't see the benefit of reduced taxation, fees, etc...I won't spell it out for fear of moderator censorship! Ah, what the heck...you are an i_i_t! In case anyone forgets...this is the guy that on sept.11 makes a post blaming pilots (summer of 2000) for our current ills!
 

UAL777flyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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ualcrewdesk_man,

What about the fees that all airlines are charged that get earmarked for the Aviation Trust Fund (airport/ATC improvements), yet are consistently used to offset federal debt? Do you think that's fair? The bottom line is that airlines get saddled with numerous fees and taxes that drive up their costs astronomically. I'm generally in favor of laissez-faire when it comes to business and industry. However, there are times when government aid is justified and necessary. Why are airlines being forced to subsidize the TSA when the safety and security of this nation is the job of the federal government, not the airline industry? Level the playing field and this industry would be in a lot better shape. And that includes either significantly reducing or eliminating many of the taxes, or else kicking in more bailout money. Because if we go to war with Iraq, you haven't seen anything yet in terms of what would happen to this industry. I truly feel that the worst is ahead of us, not behind us, as an industry.
 
Sep 7, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 9/25/2002 12:24:24 AM bigJ wrote:

ual crewdesk man,

Oh yeah, if I remember correctly you said the pilots are mostly responsible(65%) for our current situation. I guess now I do understand why you don't see the benefit of reduced taxation, fees, etc...I won't spell it out for fear of moderator censorship! Ah, what the heck...you are an i_i_t! In case anyone forgets...this is the guy that on sept.11 makes a post blaming pilots (summer of 2000) for our current ills!

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My opinion that the pilot group is mostly responsible for our current situation has not changed. Were you there taking sick call after sick call? And for what?
I do see the benefit of reduced taxes and all that.
But it seems like it is 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other......
And you should check your facts, sir. That post was written on Sep. 09, not Sep. 11. I was at the memorial at WHQ that day. Looks like the Big J is
a Big L.
 

UAL777flyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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Will we ever reach a point where people stop moaning and groaning about what happened in the past, especially the Summer of 2000?

If we all focused as much energy on the job at hand and the future as we do complaining about the mistakes of the past, we wouldn't be in this mess. Let's look ahead, not behind.
 

Busdrvr

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 9/26/2002 1:51:33 AM ual-crewdesk-man wrote:

[My opinion that the pilot group is mostly responsible for our current situation has not changed. Were you there taking sick call after sick call? And for what?
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[/blockquote]

I see you added MD to your qualifications. Maybe they were SICK! You ever think of that? You ever have an ear block, sinus block? Do your job and quit whinning.
 

trollydolly

Member
Sep 3, 2002
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Again I am with with UAL777. The past is the past, and we need to look at the future. Although I will say that I did have my moments with your group, as I am sure you have had with mine.
Now I do have some insight on to why the airline indusrty is whining so much to the government. 2003 is right around the corner, and what does that spell for companies who didn't make a profit(lets just say in the billions) the following year. It means a HUGH tax break/return. Lets look at it on a smaller scale. I do not know anyone who uses the EZ form anymore. If you do, you truly are a rarity. Everyone that I know writes off as much as they legally can. Some people do more, but we won't go there. I think you all get my point. Now take UAL, and all its losses. Add their 2002 tax return to the employee give backs, and then the ATSB loan. All which will not happen until the beginning of next year. What does that spell for UAL in 2003. Enough money to make it through this very difficult, but interesting time.
 
Sep 7, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 9/26/2002 4:31:52 PM Busdrvr wrote:

I see you added MD to your qualifications. Maybe they were SICK! You ever think of that? You ever have an ear block, sinus block? Do your job and quit whinning.

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I have had a few of those conditions. But let me share with you my theory of pilot sick list. It is proportional to the status of contract negotiations . The closer the company and the union are on a contract, the higher the sick list. It is also proportional to VAC or a PC/PT. That is the closer you are to either one of those, the higher the sick list. Oh yeah, don't forget about weekends. But I haven't done enough research on that one yet. But maybe it is possible that when I get the sick list calls from the 808 area code (and the PSNL has a 303 home number) that they do have ear blockage, or a sinus infection.

As far as my whining (this is how it is spelled) goes, why is it O.K. for the pilot group to whine when the were mistreated by the company during that dreaded summer, but I can't whine when I (along with the rest of the crew desk-because we are on the front line of the negotiations you know..) was so mistreated by the pilot group?
Practice what you preach, and we'll see who will be whining first when your current contract expires.
 

Busdrvr

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,217
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[blockquote]
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On 9/26/2002 6:37:58 PM ual-crewdesk-man wrote:

But maybe it is possible that when I get the sick list calls from the 808 area code (and the PSNL has a 303 home number) that they do have ear blockage, or a sinus infection.

You guys have caller ID? I'll remember that! safety tip for today! Who's to say they aren't somewhere else and GOT SICK AN CAN'T FLY HOME? Some of us have reserve jobs ya know

As far as my whining (this is how it is spelled) goes,

You learned how to spell, I learned how to fly...sounds like you chose poorly..
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[/blockquote]
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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The problem is that ticket prices are ridiculously low because of too much capacity. Unfortunately, the airline industry as a whole cannot react to wild swings in capacity demand due to capital costs . . . REGARDLESS of labor costs. While we junk airliners by the hundreds and defer new replacements, in a couple of years there will probably be another boom cycle where the government and public will be screaming why they can't get a seat.

If the public wants a coherent industry without the boom/bust chaos, then maybe re-regulation is the only way to get it.
 

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