Allentown PA?

[ngneer]

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On 7/30/2003 8:29:42 PM wings396 wrote:

ISP and PVD may be larger areas than ABE, but they were chosen to draw from LGA,JFK and BOS weren't they?
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I don't think so. I think they were chosen simply because there was a large population within a 50 mile radius and the airport was uncongested. I'm not sure what the population is within a 50 mile radius of ABE, but it has to be quite a bit less than for ISP and PVD.
The other problem for ABE is that, on the east coast, almost all routes go through BWI and ABE is just too close to BWI. With BWI soon to become SWA's busiest station, I just don't see how ABE fits into the picture, at least for the next several years.

 

[Tanker]

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On 7/30/2003 8:29:42 PM wings396 wrote:

ISP and PVD may be larger areas than ABE, but they were chosen to draw from LGA,JFK and BOS weren't they?
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When I went through upgrade a few years ago we had the people from Schedule Planning come in & talk to us. They said that the demographics (population & income) for ISP, PVD, & MHT was what made them SWA cities. These demographics didn't include NYC & BOS. The fact that ISP is close to NYC & PVD & MHT are close to BOS is icing on the cake.

 

[AirplaneFan]

ISP is in the center of Long Island. There are 3.5 million potential passengers who live in that region and have a per capital income of $45K.

MHT is in so. New Hampshire. NH is a small state of 1.3 million people and is only 20 miles from the Massachusetts border. There are about 2.5 million people who would consider MHT their closest airport. NH is one of the fastest growing states in the country (7th fastest growing). It has the highest per capita income of any New England state and is the most technological state in the country.

PVD is in RI, the smallest US state in the country with a population of 1.1 million. Many of the same demographics that were mentioned about MHT also hold true for PVD except southeastern MA and Rhode Island are somewhat poorer than NH and Boston's northwestern suburbs.

 

[weatherman]

PVD has 1.4 million people within 30 miles.
MHT has 1.1 million people within 30 miles.

 

[wings396]

I don't have the population numbers for the ABE area, but I will try to obtain them. I was not saying that ABE would depend on EWR & PHL traffic, just that there are a lot of people who live in the middle that now use EWR & PHL. If ABE had better service they would come to ABE instead. On the subject of being too close to BWI, what about RIC? That is closer to BWI than ABE is. ABE could have direct service to LAS,MDW,TPA,MCO and some others without going thru BWI.

 

[rvolkcpa]

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On 8/2/2003 2:33:30 PM wings396 wrote:

I don't have the population numbers for the ABE area, but I will try to obtain them. I was not saying that ABE would depend on EWR & PHL traffic, just that there are a lot of people who live in the middle that now use EWR & PHL. If ABE had better service they would come to ABE instead. On the subject of being too close to BWI, what about RIC? That is closer to BWI than ABE is. ABE could have direct service to LAS,MDW,TPA,MCO and some others without going thru BWI.

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Southwest could capture a lot of existing ABE passengers who are unhappy with the fact that mainline flights on DL, US and UA have been replaced with RJ service, sometimes resulting in less convenient connections to their final destination. The US flight from ABE-CLT, for example, will depart an hour earlier when it is switched to express. The connections from CLT will still depart on the current schedule. This results in a 2-hour layover instead of 1 hr. Southwest could attract these passengers as well as gain EWR and PHL passengers with nonstops to the cities mentioned by Wings396.

Southeast is currently operating as many as 6 ABE-Florida flights. Many of those passengers would prefer Southwest over Southeast due to airports served and brand recognition.

 

[Hope777]

Just remember something, Central New Jersey is only 45-1hr from ABE and 35-45mins to EWR. The Parking,NO ATC,Minimal Security Hassels all make for a Win-Win reason for flying out of ABE. Per Capita in this area is some of the highest in the country. As far as Landing Fees, I'm sure that ABE is much less then the roughly $1000.00 for a B737-700.

 

[Harold]

Since Southwest has had enormous success in Philadelphia with many customers driving to/from New Jersey, should they re-consider Allentown as a destination city to draw business away from Newark and LaGuardia? Last month I flew into ABE, and found about 40% of the gates and front counter space empty. Southwest could write their own ticket to move into ABE.

 

[AirplaneFan]

Since Southwest has had enormous success in Philadelphia with many customers driving to/from New Jersey, should they re-consider Allentown as a destination city to draw business away from Newark and LaGuardia? Last month I flew into ABE, and found about 40% of the gates and front counter space empty. Southwest could write their own ticket to move into ABE.

[post="270239"][/post]​

I don't think Allentown is high on SW's list. First of all, contrary to popular opinion, they don't make a habit out of going to out of the way airports. The only 3 airports that they have done this with have been PVD, MHT and ISP. However, I would contend that each of them have a metro area of there own that is big enough to support the flights. I know ABE has a metro area that could support flights as well, but since they made the commitment to PHL, I don't see them going up the road and setting up shop there.

Plus ABE's management has been in the papers discussing conversations that they have had with SW and that's a big 'no-no".

 

[markkus757]

PVD is in RI, the smallest US state in the country with a population of 1.1 million. Many of the same demographics that were mentioned about MHT also hold true for PVD except southeastern MA and Rhode Island are somewhat poorer than NH and Boston's northwestern suburbs.

PVD's cachement area also includes eastern CT (Groton/New London, Putnam, etc.) which houses 2 huge Casinos, all of which add to our draw. Most of Cape Cod will use PVD as it easier to get to (most of the time) than BOS as well. The SW BOS suburbs might be "pooper," but RI versus NH isn't close. RI has a very large military presesnce (5th most used commercial airport for the military in the U.S.), a large and growing pharmaceutical industry (coporate HQ for CVS and Brooks' pharmacies and Amgen's main drug manufacturing/support center for Enbrel), large banking and invetment company presence (Fidelity, Citizens Bank HQ, Bank of America, and Bank RI), and numerous other major companies (Textron World HQ - owns Cessna aviation anoung many other companies, Hasbro Toys HQ, Paul Arpin Van Lines, Amtrol - makes water tanks, GTech - huge lottery machine and sytems maker/supporter, General Dynamics - makes nuclear subs for the Navy, Toray Plastics, and many more). RI's higher education centers are also a bit more robust than NH with Brown (Ivy League $$$) Providence College, Bryant University, RI School of Design (often ranked just behind Juliard for performing arts), Johnson & Wales Univ (highly regarding for services industry programs and cooking), Salve Regina (good business program), Roger Williams, URI (great engineering school and marine biology), with several other smaller specialized schools as well. Most shoreline cities and towns in RI are filled with very highly paid doctors, lawyers, and business owners which drives up RI's average income (many of these folks work in the BOS area). Not to mention places like Newport and Barrington, which are known as "rich people towns." Without actually knowing the average income of NH and RI, I'd be willing to bet RI's is at least a little higher (absolutely nothing against NH, by the way!).

An issue with MHT's cachement area is that is a "half circle." All the draw comes from the southern quardrants (the north is mostly trees, mountains, and farms). PVD draws from all directions (somewhere around 3 million people within an hour's drive).

 

[Harold]

Airplanefan---I can't disagree with you, but service to Allentown by Southwest would be a nice alternative to getting to central New Jersey and eastern PA instead of going into Newark.