Allied Pilots Association ... alleges that the airline is negotiating in bad faith

[Connected1]

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On 3/26/2003 1058 PM s80dude wrote:

Managment has stated that the reason their portion of the pie, 200 million is smaller is because they have already reduced the headcounts and taken the pay freezes. That''s all well and good, then why can''t the pilots count their furloughs, or why can''t the flight attendants count the 750 they have getting the axe over the next two months?
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The key difference is that the overwhelming majority of management reductions over the past 2 years have not been capacity-related - they have been cost reduction initiatives. Unions will not get credit for any reductions due to lower capacity (especially reductions that we would have gotten anyway, had it not been for certain contract limitations). To achieve profitability, you have to do more with less, not less with less.

There has been a lot of talk about management leading the way in concessions. The truth is that we have over the past 2 years. Our union brethren just don''t seem to want to give us credit for it.

 

[Connected1]

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On 3/27/2003 8:31:01 AM AAviator wrote:

The powerpoint shows a "fleet" savings of 208 mil Y.E. 2005. All other savings are identified. Y.E. 2005 savings are 2.1 billion. No inclusion of furloughs. Can you elaborate?
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If it''s the same presentation that I am thinking of, the fleet savings refer to the retirement of F100s and the standardization of the 777 and 767 fleets. The retirement of the F100s gives us savings in maintenance and pilot training. The standardization of the 777 and 767 fleets will allow us to schedule aircraft more efficiently, therefore reducing the total number of aircraft that we need to fly the same schedule. As a result, our maintenance burden on those fleets should also decrease.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 3/27/2003 12:29:07 AM AA80Driver wrote:

The 1,000 furloughs can't be executed within the terms of the existing contract, they would be the result of negotiated changes.
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Are you absolutely certain about that? From today's Dallas Morning News:

The airline said that it told the union months ago about impending layoffs and that its request for $660 million had to come from "structural changes to the contract" – meaning pay, benefits or potential work rule changes that made pilots more efficient.

"Furloughs, while regrettable, are resulting from the overage under the terms of our existing agreement," the company statement read. "Therefore, they were never included in the $660 million in structural contract changes. We discussed this issue with the APA a number of weeks ago and several times recently."
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[Connected1]

From yesterday''s St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

However, without changes to the APA''s contract, American cannot lay off pilots hired before April 10, 2001 - the day before American acquired TWA.​

 

[AA80Driver]

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On 3/27/2003 144 PM eolesen wrote:

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On 3/27/2003 12:29:07 AM AA80Driver wrote:

The 1,000 furloughs can''t be executed within the terms of the existing contract, they would be the result of negotiated changes.
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Are you absolutely certain about that? From today''s Dallas Morning News:

The airline said that it told the union months ago about impending layoffs and that its request for $660 million had to come from "structural changes to the contract" – meaning pay, benefits or potential work rule changes that made pilots more efficient.

"Furloughs, while regrettable, are resulting from the overage under the terms of our existing agreement," the company statement read. "Therefore, they were never included in the $660 million in structural contract changes. We discussed this issue with the APA a number of weeks ago and several times recently."
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I prefer to get my contractual info from the contract vice the media:

"Supplement J: Furlough Protection

The parties hereby amend Supplement J of the current AA/APA Agreement to provide that the Company will not furlough American Pilots through the later of: the expiration of the TWA LLC Operation; or the term of the next AA/APA Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The remaining provisions of Supplement J will remain unchanged"

 

[skyflyr69]

does this mean the 1000 pilots come from twallc?

 

[Winglet]

After the announced furloughs, I think there are only about 300 more non-furlough-protected TWA pilots before the seniority list gets into pre-Apr 10 AA pilots. Now there are about 800 TWA pilots that were finned into the AA list. I guess what happens depends on how the contract is changed.