ALPA East LEC Updates - May 26, 2007

USA320Pilot

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PHL Council 41 Update - May 25, 2007

Dear Philadelphia pilots,

Just back from the MEC meeting in DCA, we will continue our efforts on behalf of the US Airways pilots and the profession. Take time to study the Executive Council’s resolution located on the MEC web site under “What’s New.â€

The JNC has informed us that Scott Kirby will not be participating in negotiations scheduled for the end of May, and also has advised us that efforts to continue these good faith negations, absent Mr. Kirby, are futile at this time.

USA320Pilot comments: I wonder why the Council 41 LEC Officer's said, "efforts to continue these good faith negations, absent Mr. Kirby, are futile at this time"?

The following is one of our pilots, Rich Wargin’s letter to the board. We believe his letter itemized the most compelling arguments to vacate this award. It contains exact references as to who maintains jurisdiction of ALPA policy, why the award harms our pilots and promises increasing problems for all ALPA pilots. It details what the Arbitrator did & did not do and how ALPA Merger Policy is the problem – including potential calamities this awards now sets as precedent for future ALPA seniority integrations - and exactly how it prophecies a real problem for ALL ALPA pilots. It’s a long but excellent, informative read.

Capt. J. Prater, President, ALPA Executive Council

Fellow pilots of the ALPA Executive Council:


You hold in your hands the stewardship of the ALPA Mission, Constitution & By-Laws and policies governing our union - carefully crafted language applying the collective wisdom of a great number of pilots. It is incumbent upon you to insure uniform governance for every member of our association.

It is implausible for our ALPA predecessors to have intended policy to become subject to political influence since they prophetically agreed to carefully orchestrated language in order to protect each of us against the possibility of overpowering political strength; to protect that which is equitable, honest and just in the best interests of our association and membership. Policy was written to defend the weak against the strong; to preserve honesty and integrity for (and within) ALPA; to preclude internal dissent; and ultimately protect us from ourselves and those potential career negatives such as greed, short-sighted thinking and political strength and manipulation certainly facilitate.

As a ‘victim’ of the Nicolau award, I can only compare this as like watching one’s self in a slow-motion train wreck. It represents the worst fear of ALPA and that which we continuously strive to avoid: all protective measures have failed. They didn’t actually fail; they were ignored. Now we find ourselves peering into the crevice of the ‘crash’ aftermath which could, and should, have been prevented.

Having attended most of our recent arbitration hearings, I sincerely believe no member of the USAirways Merger Committee, MEC, legal counsel Mr. Katz or even Capt. Jim Brucia (ALPA Pilot Neutral-CAL) could have predicted an award so obtuse - one which so completely disregards ALPA’s governing policies. Capt. Brucia demonstrated great courage in his attempt to redirect the arbitrators thought process toward sensibility in his dissenting opinion, but as we are reminded the award decision consists of only one voter: the arbiter. Yet Mr. Nicolau, who stated AAA attrition as an asset of value, chose to penalize our pilots in lieu of applying that attrition appropriately. It forces the question, “Why?â€

Since 1984, I have served as both ALPA Merger and Joint Negotiating Committee member, and now do considerable volunteer work for the association as a member of the AAA MEC Communications Committee as well as help our PHL Council 41 LEC. I offer the following for your consideration, and urge you to consider these points prior to rendering any decision.

It is prudent to mention: I do not wish to complain. Rather, I offer conflict identification, result dynamics and potential resolution - not out of hope for personal reward, association related political motive or pay, and certainly absent any compensation from my employer, but for the benefit of every single member of our association, their personal and ALPA’s future.

I believe it requisite for the Executive Council to consider points which may have been minimized (or overlooked in entirety) during Monday’s hearing - but which may bear significant impact on the outcome of any decision subsequently rendered.

Albert Einstein once said, “Keep things as simple as possible, but no simpler.†I have attempted to apply that concept herein, as follows:

1. ALPA MERGER POLICY - MEDIATION-ARBITRATION

Ref. Section H. 3. b.)

“The Arbitration Board shall be composed of three persons, two of whom shall be nonvoting ALPA members chosen from the Master List of Pilot Neutrals. The third member and Chairman of the Board shall be chosen from a list of Arbitrators approved by ALPA.†This unmistakably establishes the specific authority of the association. Further, the alternate strike methodology and failure of selection directs the President to reverse the process unless and until an arbitrator, from the exact same list, is chosen. These provisions are very narrow and limiting which clearly indicate a broken, dated policy in an industry enduring rapid dynamic change. We have failed to recognize our need to adapt.

Problems are compounded by an arbitrator acting in opposition to common union practices, and moreover, specifically detailed provisions contained within our Merger Policy by substituting authority unlegislated in ALPA Merger Policy, i.e. issues specific to airline pilots (not autoworkers, writers, musicians, common laborers, flight attendants, etc.) which remain unique to, and within, our profession. This award, at best, reflects an anti-labor union (seniority) sentiment.

2. ALPA Merger Policy is designed to address all aspects of member protections contained in the association’s Administrative Manual which require it to be applied as a whole. Its basic philosophy opposes application of specific language out of context for convenience of argumentive support; in the vernacular: Merger Policy doesn’t allow “cherry-pickingâ€.

3. The ALPA Merger Policy Preamble states, “The role of ALPA in seniority integration is solely to provide the process…†and “there may be no consensus of what is fair and equitable.†Given how the association must maintain neutrality, the Executive Council remains charged with insuring honesty and integrity within the process in order to obtain any end result which, by virtue of fact, complies with merger policy. Absent acceptance and application of honesty, particularly that supported by admitted evidence and testimony, no arbitration award can be considered lawful – much less justifiable – which is where the Executive Council bears highest responsibility to the membership at large.

This represents a test in which the arbitrator failed by specifically ignoring actively employed pilots under a single USAirways Operating Certificate (also supported by admitted and certified evidence and testimony.) These pilots are entitled protection as journeymen over apprentice pilots; indeed journeymen should be protected prior to any apprentice as is common practice within every other union organization. (It is reasonable to infer the United Auto Workers would have a ‘field day’ over this issue!)

4. The intent of Merger Policy was to defend vestments in pilot careers based on seniority. This is addressed for two reasons; the first of which is intent as to who might be enjoined to vested interest vs. outcome, and; second is to determine which vested interest is affected more significantly. We need to be careful to not place the “cart before the horse.†Are pilots or the association more affected by this award? I would submit both face problems, yet it is individual pilot who ‘feels’ greater degradation and devaluation of life and career. Does this not seem to justify an erosion of allegiance to the association over time?

I am interested, and will support, what is right, just and equitable for my fellow airline pilot. It is the line pilot who bears the greatest burden in an unjust award based on dishonesty and misapplication of policy and/or authority – and then endures that ‘decision’ in perpetuity. ALPA must strive for uniform continuity in considering every pilot. If a broken Merger Policy needs to be fixed, then so be it. It is better to do the right thing: amend the policy than to expose the association to further conflict. As a benefit, it enhances association loyalty. The benefits are obvious.

5. Mr. Nicolau’s errors may be found within his own statements:

First, in Mr. Nicolau's own written Ground Rules for the US Airways-America West Pilot Seniority Integration Arbitration, he states, in Section X: Joint Exhibits and Stipulations:

“The following exhibits, which have been submitted to the Chairman of the Board of Arbitration, shall be considered Joint Exhibits and shall also be submitted to the Pilot Neutrals prior to the commencement of the arbitration:

1. ALPA Merger Policies Booklet (August 2005 Edition)

2. A. and B. Certified Lists of AAA & AWA pilot groups.â€

Please note the AAA pilot group list included those pilots currently and actively employed (as journeyman pilots) and who the arbitrator placed junior to apprentice pilots. This represents the most egregious of failures on the part of the arbitrator. Supporting failures include ignoring the ALPA Merger Policy Booklet contents (and therefore intent) and the AAA certified list of actively employed pilots. Not one person on the Executive Board should deny this as the single justification to vacate, or set aside, the Nicolau award and reorder the arbitrational process under different authority and establishing clearly how ALPA Merger Policy governs both process and arbitrator.

The USAirways pilots approached this merger from the perspective of honesty, integrity, equities and a sense of fair play. Had our proposal been implemented, and as our Merger Committee clearly demonstrated during testimony, every pre-merger USAirways pilot was astounded in how, by the time the combined seniority lists are fully implemented (using “Date-of-Hire†methodology) pre-merger America West pilots could have been holding wide-body, international captain positions in less than 1½ years from today without fences!

We did not attempt to gain windfalls. The AAA committee members were, however, committed to preventing them. We did not attempt to degrade or demoralize our fellow ALPA pilots and certainly not for their entire careers!

Moreover, this merger presents the AWA pilots a future of flying never imagined. And we were offering to share that with them. We did not intend, nor ever imply, any intent to take away flying from any pilot on their property.

The simple fact in all of this is how our merger policies have failed. They deny members their seniority – based on tenure – which is virtually a universal practice in other unions. It is, in fact, exactly how every other union on the USAirways property merged seniority lists. It creates the easiest and least costly method for an airline to implement.

Please remember Project Zanzibar, as described by Scott Kirby, as information we did not have during the course of this process. Why? It would have mitigated the AWA position as a result of a 15% reduction in headcount. FIFTEEN percent of the AWA pilots would have been furloughed resulting in a vastly different end result. We never approached this process as a confrontation. We approached it as a coalition and tried to make it livable and better for everyone.

And that without any mention of the $6.8 billion the AAA pilot group sacrificed to provide survival for the entire company and the entire pilot population of the combined USAirways. The AAA side even now provides profitable offset to losses on the AWA as this is written.

“Date-of-Hire†is the benchmark of every union. It is maintained as the standard by which people get better at doing their jobs. It marks the beginning of tenure and is, in fact, the benchmark ALPA postures when applying their own organizing efforts. It needs to be revisited as the primary consideration in our merger policy. In fact, it remains in current ALPA Merger Policy language no less than six times. Why does our Merger Policy state, “The date of hire shall be the date upon which a pilot first appears upon the Company’s payroll as a pilot and also begins initial operational training required to perform such duties in airline operations� Merger Policy further requires “Each MEC will maintain a system seniority list including at least the following data: seniority number, name, date of hire, and date of birth.†Why, then, did the Nicolau Award appear absent that information?

“Date-of-hire†was as sacrosanct then as it remains today. Yet we continue to ignore that fact out of convenience? Which forces yet another question: “For whom?â€

Certainly any initial union document must be that of organizing efforts. Ours dictates the initial establishment of a seniority list by “Date-Of-Hire.†This methodology is shared by most unions as the pre-eminent form of recognizing expertise in class and craft gained through tenure – commonly referred to as “seniority.†So, there can be a consensus of what is fair and equitable! We simply don’t enjoy it. ALPA Merger Policy is far more complex than it needs to be.

As to the financial viability or executive business acumen of either partner to a merger, those topics do not exist as a consideration of ALPA Merger Policy. Is it possible our original Merger Policy authors were on to something? Did they recognize that which is beyond our control?

While vacating this award might result in small interim problems for the national officers, lack that action promises elevating, long-term future conflict. This award, if allowed to stand, sets precedent for subsequent ALPA members by orchestrating potential career disaster.

Airline industry leaders have openly stated that consolidation is far from over. Not one ALPA pilot can truly impact who is bought, sold, merged, etc. Imagine what could happen on another property if this list is implemented with United, Delta or Northwest! It might be possible to see a pilot with less than five years total service being placed senior to a 25 year pilot with 13 years as Captain. (Imagine Jet Blue merging with United or Delta - after joining ALPA!)

In my particular case, for example, I will say this: I do not wish to displace any pilot out of his/her seat and I certainly don’t want to see his/her income reduced as a result of a merger clearly out of our realm of control by forcing him/her out of a position. But, now serving in my 22nd year of active service with USAirways and having served approximately half that time as a Captain, I am no less qualified to hold a Captain bid than any pilot with half of my service tenure and less than half of my experience as a Captain. Now apply my age and property attrition. Any bid I might hold, if it occurred today, would permit me less than six years in that position. Given the relative position of the person on the AWA side, after I retire, they will have – due to youth – at least 12 years in that very same position. But if placed ahead of me, they will be a Captain for 18 years and I will have none. Maybe that is fair to a few. Very few!

Lastly, Merger Policy states, “The President will send a letter to all pilots involved in a merger… clearly indicating what Association Merger Policy is intended to accomplish.†Among those issues is, “avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.†As it was stated, “avoid†doesn’t mean minimize or ignore; nor does it allow any discretion. Visibly, the Nicolau award enables large numbers of exactly that which is prohibited. It fails to avoid; rather, it enables extreme and, simply, untenable windfalls. I assure you I am no more responsible for the size or business model of my company than my counterpart at AWA is on that property. The only difference, seemingly, is that I am cognizant of that fact. Yes, experience is an education unto itself.

The Nicolau list cannot be repaired. It is broken and simply can’t be fixed. It contains flaws and internal contradictions too numerous to solve. It can, however, be re-arbitrated to conform to ALPA Merger Policy with a different arbiter.

The principal question of the Executive Council would seem to be jurisdiction of the AAA/AWA Nicolau Arbitration Award. That authority is very clearly stated in “B. Purpose and Scope of Merger Policy.†To summarize, “application or interpretation of Merger Policy shall be determined by the Executive Council. (SOURCE - Executive Board May 1998)†and “when the Executive Council, in its judgment, determines that there is sufficient…need for a merged seniority list to adequately protect the employment rights and interests of the flight deck crew members.†This language does not include such vagaries as ‘selectively’ or ‘some’ and, by default, implies all. It unquestioningly specifies the judgment of only the Executive Council – and, therefore, prohibits superfluous and/or non-vested considerations.

The Nicolau Seniority Integration Award fails to apply ALPA Merger Policy, and I am expressing how I may be paying for AWA windfalls for the remainder of my career. Thus, ALPA Merger Policy has failed my employment interests (and investments including tenure) and those of my fellow USAirways pilots.

As an active member of ALPA in good standing, I wish to be afforded those protections paid for by my dues: that this award be set-aside and re-arbitrated in order to comply with my ALPA Merger Policy and protections granted under the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws and Merger Policy. The Executive Council is the only enduring custodial authority of ALPA policy.

Before we can “Take It Back†– or take anything else for that matter - ALPA must stop reacting fearfully and politically by ignoring fact and thus injuring member pilot careers in the interest of political expediency. We must all act in the best interest of every active member; we can no longer afford to ignore our need for change; no longer afford to act like a “home-owner’s†association. We must change, adapt and act like a union, or the airline industry will change us. We must spawn unity again. Although we wear white-shirts, we are not management. We are labor producing those revenues reallocated by airline administrators and executives.

Industry consolidation is a fact of life. We have no control over such considerations or the business model “flavor of the day.†ALPA can, however, control reactions to such - as a group - by preserving the dignity of seniority and thus improving the prospect for unity.

If the Nicolau award is allowed to stand, ALPA is providing a vehicle in which radical, undesirable change becomes probable due to the dangerous precedent set therein. ALPA policies either exist for all - or not at all. Will we control them or allow others to control us? In addition, this award foreshadows safety implications contrary to our primary mission statement and creed, “Schedule with safety.†How can a pilot be expected to act when s/he sees a lifetime investment completely devalued through an arbitrary transfer of career value and then simultaneously endorsed by those who are entrusted with its very preservation?

Charles Dickens best friend, Dr. Samuel Johnson, once said, “It is better to suffer harm than to do it.†I would submit, “It is noble to improve your stature in life through hard work, education and experience; to the contrary, it is deplorable to achieve that same goal at the expense of another human being – including any fellow pilot.†But that is exactly what a windfall does! Current academia documents the “Win-Lose†scenario as the last preference in attempting to create success since it has historically proven the least effective in doing so. I would rather suffer than to harm my fellow pilot. But beware! The USAirways pilot group has reached the point they will no longer tolerate the role of “spanking child.†We are finished leading the suffering of our union absent commensurate equities.

ALPA must stand by its policies and every pilot - or we fail ourselves. We can and must leave a better legacy for those inheriting our profession or we will become increasingly disjointed and take nothing back. There are more people watching than you may think. Some airline executives may, in fact, be covertly rejoicing this award as the beginning of the end of ALPA!

Please lead our ALPA with the courage to do what’s right. Please set-aside this award and support re-arbitration mandating application of specific ALPA Merger Policy provisions. We are professional airline pilots – something which others simply can’t understand.

Please act for pilots instead of politics.

Fraternally and respectfully,

Richard W. Wargin, Jr.
PHL B-757/767 F/O
Formerly Captain: Fokker F-28 & Fk100; Boeing 737-200/300/400
___________________________________________________________

LGA Council 135 Captain Representative Update – May 26, 2007

Fellow LGA Pilots,

I returned from Washington last night after attending the continuation of the Special MEC meeting which began in Herndon on Monday.

As you should be aware by now, the ALPA National Executive Council has been studying and debating the problems associate with, and in disregard of, APLA merger policy as it relates to the AAA-AWA Nicolau Seniority Integration Award.

As a result of several days of immersion educating themselves as to the egregious nature of the Award, the Executive Council has seen fit to take ownership of the matter and be responsible for the ultimate outcome as it pertains to the proper application of ALPA merger policy.

The ruling by Nicolau is a byproduct of binding arbitration. But when that binding arbitration award is flawed, or does not comport with ALPA policy, ALPA National and the Executive Council have determined that they have no choice but to intercede in the matter. In fact, by their actions, the Executive Council is stating that they are responsible to insure that the policies of the Association are upheld, and that no group is awarded a windfall over another which is exactly what was hoped to be conveyed to that body with the presentation to them by the Merger Committee this past Monday.

You will hear many ideas and rumors over the next several days. Rest assured your MEC has developed and continues to develop strategies to deal with this travesty no mater what roadblock appears in our way.

It is important for you to stay engaged in the ongoing campaign to protect our career expectations, and attrition based career progression you and our pilot group bring to this merger. We are in the biggest war of our professional careers and this is just one small battle. Any success that can come from this is directly tied to the support and continued effort of our pilots. This MEC can lead and fight but we need our army behind us, so please keep up the pressure.

The JNC has learned that Scott Kirby will not be participating in negotiations scheduled for the end of May, and advised us that efforts to continue these good faith negations, absent Mr. Kirby, are pointless at this time.

I have never been prouder to be part of this pilot group. You have pulled yourselves out of ditches of depression and joined the masses with anger. We need to continue to be angry and we need to fight harder. But channel your anger in the proper direction. Be angry with the process, the merger policy and the award. But I caution you not to be angry with the America West Pilots. Continue to act in a most professional manner as you come in contact with them.

Our Careers are the single most important thing to protect. When we succeed at that everything else will fall in place. Stand tall, look forward and hold your head high. Fight for what is yours by every legal means possible. You owe it to your family, your profession, and yourself.

I hope you have a safe, healthy, & happy holiday weekend.

Fraternally,

Don Iorio
LGA Captain Rep

_
 
John Prater has scheduled a conference call with US Airways MEC Chairman Jack Stephan and AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna for Tuesday, May 29. The purpose of the call is to discuss with each MEC chairman the EC's resolution, the EC's position, and the desire of ALPA International for the parties to reach a negotiated seniority list integration.

According to LGA Captain Representative Don Iorio, "The ruling by Nicolau is a byproduct of binding arbitration. But when that binding arbitration award is flawed, or does not comport with ALPA policy, ALPA National and the Executive Council have determined that they have no choice but to intercede in the matter. In fact, by their actions, the Executive Council is stating that they are responsible to insure that the policies of the Association are upheld, and that no group is awarded a windfall over another which is exactly what was hoped to be conveyed to that body with the presentation to them by the Merger Committee this past Monday."

Meanwhile, PHL Council 141 reported, "The JNC has learned that Scott Kirby will not be participating in negotiations scheduled for the end of May, and advised us that efforts to continue these good faith negations, absent Mr. Kirby, are pointless at this time."

Also noteworthy, McIlvenna told the AWA pilots in a Chairman's message on Friday, "Unfortunately, the east JNC members informed us this morning that they will not be able to join us in negotiations next week."

USA320Pilot comments: I wonder why the US Airways MEC has elected to not participate in next week's JNC combined carrier pilot contract discussions and I wonder why Scott Kirby cancelled his participation?

Meanwhile, without a joint contract the Nicolau Award cannot be implemented. Furthermore, as I indicated in a previous topic the Executive Council has intervened or as Don Iorio indicated, "But when that binding arbitration award is flawed, or does not comport with ALPA policy, ALPA National and the Executive Council have determined that they have no choice but to intercede in the matter.

I elected to use the word "intervene" and the LGA Captain Representative said "interced".

In regard to transfering aircraft the Transition Agreement will remain binding on the parties until there is a joint contract, if that ever occurs. Here is specific Transition Agreement language, signed by the Company, the US Airways MEC, and the AWA MEC.

II. Period of Separate Operations

A. The pilot workforces of America West and US Airways will remain separate and covered by their respective collective bargaining agreements (the “Separate Operationsâ€￾) until Operational Pilot Integration as provided in Section VI. A.

The aircraft (including orders and options to purchase or lease aircraft) and the operations of each of America West and US Airways will remain separated. A list of all aircraft in the service of each of America West and US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement is appended as Attachment A; and the fleet plan for the merged airline (by airline and tail number) is appended to this Letter of Agreement as Attachment B.

4. Pilots on the America West Seniority List will operate the aircraft in the service of America West on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement and pilots on the US Airways Seniority List will operate the aircraft in the service of US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement.

Except as provided in paragraph 6. below, no pilot of either airline will fly as a crewmember on an aircraft listed in Attachment A in the fleet of the other airline.

a) The Airline Parties will not transfer aircraft listed in Attachment A to the fleet of the other airline.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
Here is specific Transition Agreement language, signed by the Company, the US Airways MEC, and the AWA MEC.

II. Period of Separate Operations

A. The pilot workforces of America West and US Airways will remain separate and covered by their respective collective bargaining agreements (the “Separate Operationsâ€￾) until Operational Pilot Integration as provided in Section VI. A.

The aircraft (including orders and options to purchase or lease aircraft) and the operations of each of America West and US Airways will remain separated. A list of all aircraft in the service of each of America West and US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement is appended as Attachment A; and the fleet plan for the merged airline (by airline and tail number) is appended to this Letter of Agreement as Attachment B.

4. Pilots on the America West Seniority List will operate the aircraft in the service of America West on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement and pilots on the US Airways Seniority List will operate the aircraft in the service of US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement.

Except as provided in paragraph 6. below, no pilot of either airline will fly as a crewmember on an aircraft listed in Attachment A in the fleet of the other airline.

a) The Airline Parties will not transfer aircraft listed in Attachment A to the fleet of the other airline.

Regards,

USA320Pilot[/font]
When would NOW be a good time not to blow the TA by pulling out of joint negotiations? Does no one on the east side take this risk seriously?
 
Luvn737s,

The East pilots will likely not pull out of negotiations - to do so would be a violation of the Transition Agreement (TA). Instead the East JNC may just cancel meetings, delay the proceedings, and never agree to a deal. These are voluntary negotiations, the East pilots have a contract in place that they are more than willing to live under, and there is nothing written that says a new combined contract has to be obtained. In fact, Doug Parker has indicated that he is more than willing to operate the two pilot groups separately. The East pilots are too!

Furthermore, the West pilots are bound by the terms if the TA.

:up:

There is a way out of this mess as indicated by the EC resolution, which states that the Executive Council is acutely aware of the negative consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and mutual success.

I believe it is in the best interests of both the East and West pilots to figure out a consensual agreement per the EC resolution or, if not, I believe there will be negative consequences for both pilots groups that the EC indicated they were "acutely aware of."

Best regards,

USA320Pilot
 
USA320Pilot,

If you are willing to keep the operations separate, why do you sound so desperate and continue to pound your chest? I could care less if we run a B-scale operation in the east. I am fine with it, are you? If so, just shut up already and do what you gotta do!

The EC will not unilaterally change or overturn the award, period! Wanna bet?

You guys can threaten whomever/whatever you want, whine, march, call in sick, throw temper tantrums, scream profanities, 'burn the place down', and decertify ALPA sixteen times over, nothing will change!

The ONLY way the award may be changed is by mutual agreement between the MECs, but that will not happen because of the reckless behavior, arrogance, and incompetence of the east leadership (MEC).

Cheers!

Luvn737s,

The East pilots will likely not pull out of negotiations - to do so would be a violation of the Transition Agreement (TA). Instead the East JNC may just cancel meetings, delay the proceedings, and never agree to a deal. These are voluntary negotiations, the East pilots have a contract in place that they are more than willing to live under, and there is nothing written that says a new combined contract has to be obtained. In fact, Doug Parker has indicated that he is more than willing to operate the two pilot groups separately. The East pilots are too!

Furthermore, the West pilots are bound by the terms if the TA.

:up:

There is a way out of this mess as indicated by the EC resolution, which states that the Executive Council is acutely aware of the negative consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and mutual success.

I believe it is in the best interests of both the East and West pilots to figure out a consensual agreement per the EC resolution or, if not, I believe there will be negative consequences for both pilots groups that the EC indicated they were "acutely aware of."

Best regards,

USA320Pilot
 
The ONLY way the award may be changed is by mutual agreement between the MECs, but that will not happen because of the reckless behavior, arrogance, and incompetence of the east leadership (MEC).

Cheers!

Oh please! Could it also be that the west pilots are all to eager to steal the east pilots seniority? Kind of like gaining something you have yet to earn? Since you are tossing around things like "arrogance and incompetence" I look at your post I see "sleezbag".

Try getting you hands out of our pockets and become a professional airline pilot. Then we might be able to come together.

The ONLY issue in the way of us coming together is the west pilots unwillingness to let go of a flawed decision. Why? Because you know that any other decision will never be as beneficial to you as the flawed one (in essence-pure greed).
 
Yes, that is it, we are all eager to steal your jobs...grow up junior.

I have already said I don't care if the operations are put together or not, so how can you say I'm after something?

You earned what? Oh that's right, you earned the right to be furloughed. How many years did it take to aspire to that status? I look at your post and I see a loser in desperation for the glory days on the backs of west pilots. It is pretty pathetic after all these years on furlough and you're still clinging to that old POS airline called US Airways. Well I got news for you pal that airline is dead - you're at a new airline.

Respond with whatever BS you want, I guarantee I will not waste any more of my time...you're not worth it.



Oh please! Could it also be that the west pilots are all to eager to steal the east pilots seniority? Kind of like gaining something you have yet to earn? Since you are tossing around things like "arrogance and incompetence" I look at your post I see "sleezbag".

Try getting you hands out of our pockets and become a professional airline pilot. Then we might be able to come together.

The ONLY issue in the way of us coming together is the west pilots unwillingness to let go of a flawed decision. Why? Because you know that any other decision will never be as beneficial to you as the flawed one (in essence-pure greed).
 
Yes, that is it, we are all eager to steal your jobs...grow up junior.

I have already said I don't care if the operations are put together or not, so how can you say I'm after something?

You earned what? Oh that's right, you earned the right to be furloughed. How many years did it take to aspire to that status? I look at your post and I see a loser in desperation for the glory days on the backs of west pilots. It is pretty pathetic after all these years on furlough and you're still clinging to that old POS airline called US Airways. Well I got news for you pal that airline is dead - you're at a new airline.

Respond with whatever BS you want, I guarantee I will not waste any more of my time...you're not worth it.

Despite my misfortunes, man I am glad that I am not you. We could hand a guy like you an A-330 Captain position, yet you would still be puking aqua green. Fact is, my position in the pecking order is not up for a land grab, not without a knock down drag out. That's how true Americans respond to thieves.

Oh, and by the way, my POS airline still brings in more money than your POS airline. So there.

What's the matter, didn't your mommy teach you to respect your elders!!!!
 
What's the matter, didn't your mommy teach you to respect your elders!!!!
I don't think anyone has seen "elders" act more like children.

She taught me to live up to agreements that I made, whether I like the outcome or not.

She taught me to respect those with whom I disagree and not take things personally.

She taught me that if I am reckless in thought and deed, I will get nothing, but if I am patient and participate constructively, almost anything can be mine.

I'm sure your mom never would stand for the behavior you are demonstrating with your fellow pilots. Everyone expects better.
 
I don't think anyone has seen "elders" act more like children.

She taught me to live up to agreements that I made, whether I like the outcome or not.

She taught me to respect those with whom I disagree and not take things personally.

She taught me that if I am reckless in thought and deed, I will get nothing, but if I am patient and participate constructively, almost anything can be mine.

I'm sure your mom never would stand for the behavior you are demonstrating with your fellow pilots. Everyone expects better.

Well luvn 737s, it seems as though you have paused to take the high road while addressing me exclusively. Since your mother "taught me to live up to agreements that I made, whether I like the outcome or not." than surly you can understand that when you were hired at an airline, that you would wait your turn. After all, that is a forgone conclusion in the seniority system.

Additionally, I would catorgorize that a two year pilot being placed above an 18 year pilot is in fact, "reckless in though and deed."
We are all interseted in where we fall in this mix. Insofar as to your response, recall that it was callsign cactus that threw the first stone in this thread.

So when you assert " I'm sure your mom never would stand for the behavior you are demonstrating with your fellow pilots. Everyone expects better." that you would include your own pilots as well.
 
Luvn737s,

The East pilots will likely not pull out of negotiations - to do so would be a violation of the Transition Agreement (TA). Instead the East JNC may just cancel meetings, delay the proceedings, and never agree to a deal.
USA320Pilot

Why can't ALPA on the west's behalf and AWA management agree to mediated negotiations which would require the east to participate in good faith, or be found in breach of the TA and have it tossed out?

If Stephan came out and said that bolting from ALPA was off the table as a negotiating threat and that they would be willing to jointly negotiate a contract regardless of the arbitration decision, it would go a long way toward restoring their credibility. The east needs a credible leader and it has none at this time. The company won't negotiate with someone they feel doesn't represent the pilots. They will negotiate with those who have the power to make constructive things happen.

We are all witnesses to what little can be accomplished when someone exiles themselves to an island on behalf of their principals. The world moves on without them.
 

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